When Does Gender Ideology go too far?

I recently travelled to Calgary for the weekend and decided to meet up with two gay Twitter Mutuals to do a Podcast Episode. We met in a local park and using my H4N I opened the conversation by asking, "When does Gender Ideology go too far?".

Follow Jack on Twitter @jackdan110

Follow Jason on Twitter @abc123jjj

Transcript

[00:01] Russell: All right. And we're back. Russell here with the Canadian Conservative podcast, and I have introduce yourselves.

[00:07] Jack: Hey, guys, it's Jack from Twitter. From Twitter.

[00:10] Russell: What's your Twitter handle?

[00:11] Jack: It's at Jack. What is it?

[00:15] Jason: I don't know. One.

[00:16] Jack: Oh, I'll find it for you. Go ahead.

[00:21] Jason: Well, my name is Jason. It's DCL on Twitter, and the handle is at ABC. One, two, three, JJJ.

[00:29] Jack: Yeah, I'm really organized today, guys. Sorry about that, Jack. Dan. One 10 Twitter. Sorry.

[00:36] Russell: All right, we are recording in a public park right now, so you might hear a little bit of background noise in the background. But we wanted to meet today a couple of fellow Twitter followers and mutuals to discuss the topic of when does gender ideology go too far? What are your thoughts?

[00:59] Jack: As soon as it said no, just kidding. This is really a very open question. When does it go too far? Because we all know the dangers of gender ideology basically at its core, it's homophobic, in my opinion, because a lot of people are looking at this as an opportunity to trans the gay away. So for myself, that's where it goes. As far as it going too far. There's so many things to say on that.

[01:28] Russell: Well, name a couple. Name your top three.

[01:30] Jason: Top three?

[01:31] Jack: When it's pushing your face.

[01:33] Russell: Okay, what's pushing your face?

[01:35] Jack: When you encounter someone who say you're just a regular Joe Schmo whatever, you have no idea. You've never been involved in the gay community before. And you meet someone who you have no idea, but you meet someone who has pronouns and is identifying as someone else and all sort of stuff, and you accidentally mislabel them, and then they freak out on you and they yell at you, and they start screaming, how dare you? And all sort of stuff. And now they can actually charge you with misgendering them or something or a hate crime or something. It's just that that's ridiculous. Another one is gender ideology in schools. Of course you shouldn't be teaching any of this to kids. Of course I'm pro learning about sex ed and all sorts of stuff. That's fine. But when you start introducing all these other things like, well, do you feel like a girl today? Do you feel like a boy today? And all sorts of when teachers are doing this to your kids and parents have no idea what's happening.

[02:31] Russell: Well, there was recently that Twitter spaces with Nadine where she had those parents from Lumston, Saskatchewan, talking about when Planned Parenthood came in and what those parents were saying their children experienced. What Planned Parenthood said happened seemed to be two different things. Planned Parenthood said that some kids stole some material that wasn't out on display. The children are saying that it was left on display. And then when no one was looking at it, the Planned Parenthood facilitator actually went around and put it on desk so that the kids would actually see it and stuff like talking about things like fletching and scat and fisting.

[03:16] Jack: And these are kids.

[03:17] Jason: They're children.

[03:19] Russell: Are those normal things even in the gay community?

[03:22] Jack: Not really. You don't go out for coffee and discuss those things with your no, those.

[03:27] Jason: Are things that I think happen in not just the gay community, in all sorts of communities, but you don't openly discuss it normally, and you certainly wouldn't discuss those things with a child. I don't understand why anyone would even want to do that.

[03:38] Jack: Planned Parenthood seems to have gone off the rails, not just here in Canada, but in the USA as well. They're really pushing towards these ideologies and all that, which is very strange because as I recall, Planned Parenthood was about having children, not transforming your children and introducing them to how to scat or felch with someone or fisting or anything like that. Yeah, and these are kids or encouraging. Remember that one part? The one parent said that the person from Time Parenthood had said they were encouraging. Basically, the girls quote and have multiple sex partners. Where is it, junior high? Less than that.

[04:16] Jason: Even if it's high school, why would you be encouraging that kind of behavior if that doesn't lead to anything good? In my opinion.

[04:21] Jack: And it's funny because you're going to have all these little trolls out there that sit there and say, oh, well, you think that kids don't know about sex and blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course they do. But they're all on different levels, different kids, know different things and all sorts of stuff. That's part of growing up. But also to throw that out there and say, hey, by the way, go and have a ton of sex with everybody and call yourself whatever, and here's a card on how to felch.

[04:45] Jason: Well, there's a difference between kids asking about sex and adults asking children about sex and bringing sex into that conversation with a child. I think if a child brings it up, that's one thing, because then you can have a conversation, a healthy conversation, but I don't want anyone other than my sister and my brother in law talking to my little niece about sex. I mean, she's six years old. Why would you bring her into a conversation about sex?

[05:08] Jack: Well, then and I get how at schools you have guidance counselors, right? So when you do have questions that you don't feel comfortable going to your parents about, that's fine if it's something really big, if it's something like, hi, Mrs. Or Mr. Whoever the heck, I don't understand what this word means. And the guidance counselor tells you, generally the kid will go home and say, oh, maybe they won't say anything to their parents at all. But when you have these other people coming in and they're actually trying to really encourage and force and I want to say the word groom so bad, but show them all these things that are out there in this big world. Isn't it fun? Isn't it great? And they make it look like it's fun and great and all sorts of stuff.

[05:44] Jason: And this is just stuff that they.

[05:44] Jack: Don'T need to know about until they're adults.

[05:47] Jason: Yeah, it's like I said earlier before we started, that it goes too far when you start bringing children into adult conversations, asking them to make adult decisions, all those kinds of things. It just makes absolutely no sense to me as to why people want to bring kids into these conversations before these children are even ready. I mean, we're talking about things that kids don't even understand, like what kind of kid understands what fisting or felching is and what kind of adult wants to explain that to a child. What's the point? I don't understand that at all. I think it's wrong. I don't like that at all. Okay.

[06:19] Russell: Difficult conversations. The idea of teachers keeping secrets away from parents and that. So a child tells their teacher that they are transgender, but they don't want the teacher to tell their parents because they're worried about negative repercussions at home. What are your thoughts on that? Now, I do want to preface this by reminding both of you and the listeners out there that all adults, but especially teachers, are mandatory reporters. So if they suspect that there's abuse going on in the household against the child, they actually mandatorily have to report that they can't keep that a secret. So what are your thoughts on that.

[07:03] Jason: If a kid comes out as transgender or gay or something like that to a teacher? Yeah.

[07:08] Russell: And then says, don't tell my parents because there could be negative repercussions?

[07:13] Jason: Well, I have experience with coming out to a teacher. The first person I came out to was a teacher. I was a teenager at the time, and I didn't want my parents to know about me being gay because I didn't know how they were going to react. I didn't think they'd kick me out of the house or anything. But we were raised in a Christian household, old, so I didn't know exactly what their thoughts were. We never really had those conversations. But my teacher essentially sexualized me when I was a teenager and abused me physically and sexually for a six month period after I came out to him. And the reason that whole thing exploded after everyone found out was because on the same day that my family found out that this was taking place between me and my teacher, that was the same day that I told my parents.

[07:56] Jack: That I was gay.

[07:57] Jason: So all of that could have been avoided. But yeah, I'm not sure. I think keeping secrets from parents is not a good thing. I think parental rights absolutely matter. And if a teacher, like you were saying, thinks that there's some sort of abuse that could take place at home, if they're going to report it, then shouldn't that be reported anyways?

[08:20] Jack: Yeah, that's what we're saying.

[08:22] Jason: No. I don't know if it's a horrible dynamic at home to begin with before this whole maybe I'm trans or maybe I'm gay, whatever. Then if the teacher is aware of it, shouldn't that be brought to some sort of someone's attention about this as opposed to keeping it a secret?

[08:39] Jack: Yes. See, I think that in a situation like that, where your child is at school and is expressing interest in changing genders and all sort of stuff, it's definitely a difficult conversation that you do need to have with the parent. Should this be an actual thing? As we all know, kids go through different phases and all sort of stuff. Today I'm a girl, tomorrow I'm a boy, today I'm a cat, tomorrow I'm a dog. So if it turns out that it's actually something very serious and I know that it's all being pushed now to take it extremely seriously, you also have to remember that these are kids and they're growing and they're finding out who they are.

[09:09] Jason: And and I also think there are people who are saying, don't tell your parents because they're going to react badly. Yeah.

[09:14] Jack: There's a ton of those out there.

[09:15] Jason: Right now, and we don't know if those parents are going to react badly or not unless we tell them.

[09:18] Jack: And you know what? Yeah, some parents are going to I was lucky. My parents were like, okay, we knew, but if you hear my voice, you know. But of course some parents are going to react badly, but nine out of ten times, they all come around anyway eventually.

[09:33] Jason: And even if they reacted badly, wouldn't you want to find a way to at least bring the parents and the child together as opposed to keeping secrets and keeping them apart? That's my view on it. And then parents should be involved.

[09:45] Jack: Yeah. And by the time the parents find out the child's already been into therapy for transitioning, who's already had hormones started.

[09:51] Jason: Or puberty blockers or whatever it might be.

[09:53] Russell: What about the idea I think some schools in the States I don't know about Canada, but I know some schools in the States are experimenting with this idea of the transition closet. So the child goes to school dressed as a boy, let's say, and when they go to school, the parents whisk them away into this closet, where then they transform into girls clothing.

[10:16] Jason: The teachers whisk them away?

[10:17] Russell: Yeah, the teachers do, yeah. The teachers basically put them in this closet or tell them they can go in this closet and change into girls clothes, and they can express their true identity at school, and then they can change before they go home.

[10:30] Jason: Well, I think shouldn't you want to express your true identity to everyone? Regardless? Why do you have to keep it a secret from some people and keep it and let other people know?

[10:37] Jack: See, and I think that's just wrong. I mean, that's a definite conversation that a teacher needs to have with a parent.

[10:42] Jason: Absolutely.

[10:42] Jack: Parents are entrusting you with their children. They're entrusting you to teach them about school and stuff like that, and your kids going to school and saying all the sorts of stuff like, you know, hey, Mr. And Mrs. Smith, did you realize that this is happening here? Let's have a conversation. Could you come in and yeah, but.

[10:58] Russell: Even the teachers I mean, teachers have a lot of responsibilities. They do. They're very busy, and there has been a lot of pressure. And I'm going to let teachers off the hook a little bit here because over the years, teachers have really gone from you come to school, you sit down, you shut the fuck up, and you do your work, and that and we train you to be good little employees for the workforce. And then when you get out into the real world, then you emulate where the teacher now becomes the foreman and you're now the worker type thing. And that was the traditional schooling model. Now teachers have really begun to there's this emphasis put on, you need to socialize these children as well. It's no longer just teach them, you have to socialize them as well. And I feel like in some ways, teachers do sometimes get a bad rap for that because socializing means that they're going beyond just their regular teaching duties. Do you think the conversations like that should be better held between, let's say, the school's guidance counselor and the parents, and then we don't even have to worry about the teachers. The teachers can get back to doing their jobs, which is teaching people.

[12:01] Jason: Yeah, I think teachers have I mean, yeah, I don't have a real issue with teachers. I mean, I have an issue with some, of course, but I think teachers have taken on too much of a role of parenting, and I think there are guidance counselors in place for that to help with those issues that come up. I think teachers are kind of crossing a line at times when it comes to what's appropriate and what's not in terms of conversations that you have with students. Because even I have a teacher friend or used to I'm not friends with this individual anymore, but she referred to her students as her kids, and I would say, these are not your kids. And she said, These are my kids. And I would say, these are not your kids. These are your students, and you're here to teach them. You have your own kids, and these students are kids of other people, and she always referred to them as her kids, and they're not your kids.

[12:41] Russell: Do you think that is her own belief, or do you think that's something that's been pushed on her by the system, though, in general, because of the need to feel like I want to remind viewers and listeners that loco parentis, which is quite often cited in place of the parent, is actually there to hold teachers accountable. They don't actually replace the parent in a situation where neglect has necessarily happened. They'll be judged on reasonableness based on what a reasonable parent would do in that situation. It doesn't give them parental rights over those children, which is quite often.

[13:18] Jason: Can't it be what a reasonable teacher would do if they're the teacher? Yeah. I don't know. I think parents or sorry, pardon me, teachers have taken on too much of a parental role. And with that individual that I was talking about, she very much wants to have conversations with her kids, otherwise known as students, about things that parents should be having those conversations with. In my opinion. That's just my opinion.

[13:42] Jack: But not all teachers are like that.

[13:43] Jason: No, not all teachers are like that. Absolutely.

[13:45] Jack: That are being forced to be like that.

[13:46] Jason: Absolutely.

[13:47] Jack: And there's a ton of teachers out there that refuse to be like know, and those are good, but the ones that are being forced to it and everything because they'll lose their jobs and.

[13:53] Russell: All that, well, we've seen it. Chantel in Ontario, Shannon, there's two teachers that come to example and other teachers routinely target them on Twitter for harassment, too. Like, they go in there, say, oh, you were just a terrible teacher, and we're taking care of these students weren't. So there's some teachers out there that have clearly drank the Kool Aid deep, and they think that they are doing society a service by this. What are your thoughts on Lumston, where they were now saying that in a survey, approximately 30% of the students were identifying as LGBT. Now, just to remind you, I just read that that the national statistic for LGBT is held steady at 4% of the population over as long as we've been keeping statistics.

[14:39] Jason: Absolutely, yeah. And the trans is even lower, obviously.

[14:42] Jack: It's a huge trend. It is the latest thing. That's what I believe. I really believe that there's no way in the USA there's a 4000% increase in transgendered children. 4000%. So that tells me right there, okay, these people aren't actually transsexuals. They don't suffer from any sort of gender dysmorphia. They're just trying to find them cells, and they hate their bodies. Right now, that's what being a kid is. I hated my body when I was a kid. I grew into it. I accepted it.

[15:05] Jason: Yeah, when you go through puberty, that's usually what happens.

[15:07] Jack: Puberty. And if you go on puberty blockers, you're blocking it. But anyway, sorry to answer your question.

[15:11] Russell: Why does it seem like a lot of these teachers that seem deeply involved in this gender ideology stuff also seem to have a big proclivity towards communism and far leftism and stuff like that?

[15:27] Jason: A lot of them like forced influence, kind of, in my opinion.

[15:31] Jack: A lot of it that we're seeing now, I believe was given birth to during all of the COVID lockdowns and all that, where we were all completely divided against each other over vaccines and mandates and oh, if you die and you haven't gotten your vaccine, you deserve to die because you're supposed to protect others. And if we all notice that, it's constantly changing and evolving. To me, this whole thing with gender ideology is just another version of that because they're just dividing even more, wanting to cause this. And who can you piss off easiest with the biggest reaction? The gay community.

[16:07] Russell: And not only that, to me, this started, remember years ago when Toronto Pride this was a few years ago when Toronto Pride was doing their march and those BLM protesters stopped the march and they had a list of demands and said the march could not continue until this list of demands was met. To me, what that showcased is that anyone that has a cause can find clingers in the gay movement, because the gay movement is all about acceptance, right? You have to accept just about anything.

[16:41] Jason: Well, Taylor McNally don't even sorry to bring her up.

[16:44] Jack: Absolutely not. I'm not going there. No, it's true. The gay community has always been about accepting whoever. I mean, that was the thing. You go to the clubs back in the all sort of stuff, and then you have all these kind of freaky people and all sort of stuff, and I say freaky in the kindest way. And people that just don't fit in with society, they come and they fit in with a gay community. They aren't even necessarily gay, but we would take them under the wing and then we would all accept them and all this sort of thing. Now, however, with all this giant gender push, it's actually coming from some in the community, but it's mostly caused by outside. Absolutely. The whole community has been hijacked in that sense. It's like we're not even the same thing that we were. And yes, I understand there's change and communities change and blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you're changing to this point where you're getting mad because you can't read a story to a kid while you're in drag, there's something wrong with you. Because literally nothing pisses me off more than that. It's like you're a drag queen. What are you doing?

[17:40] Jason: Yeah, when it comes to drag and kids, I don't remember or I can't imagine, kids were the ones who were asking to be read to by drag queens.

[17:47] Jack: It started because they needed money, so the clubs aren't paying the queens any money.

[17:51] Jason: Right, right. But the kids weren't saying, I want a drag queen to sit in front of me in a provocative outfit and read me a storybook. Kids didn't ask for that.

[17:59] Russell: Well, I would challenge you a little bit on that. I think when parents started letting their kids watch RuPaul's Drag Race with them, which is a very sterilized version of what drag queens are extremely minus the.

[18:12] Jack: Drugs, minus the sex.

[18:14] Russell: Minus the sex.

[18:15] Jack: And the dirty jokes.

[18:17] Russell: Well, somewhat, but I mean, they're keeping it fit for TV enough that it can remain on TV type thing. To me. It started with RuPaul's Drag Race.

[18:28] Jason: I would agree. Yeah, okay. I remember.

[18:30] Jack: I remember. RuPaul's Drag Race. It was funny because I had to host these nights of RuPaul's Drag Race, and we'd sit there at the club and we'd all be watching it. I didn't really care.

[18:40] Jason: Like in the earlier seasons.

[18:41] Jack: Earlier seasons? Yeah. Two, three, four.

[18:43] Jason: Yeah, okay.

[18:43] Jack: And I remember sitting there know, sure, there was some twinkie gays and all sort of stuff, watching it and all sort of stuff, but the most excited people in that entire room were the bears. I've never seen so many bears freaking out over a drag queen in my entire life. And when they came town and performed at the bar, it was the Bears.

[18:59] Jason: Who were screaming like kids.

[19:01] Jack: It was hilarious to me. I was like, oh, my God, you guys like, what's going on there?

[19:04] Jason: But I just don't know why drag queens all of a sudden have garnered so much respect.

[19:10] Jack: Well, no. Drag queens as a former, there's things that they wanted to accomplish, and they did accomplish.

[19:17] Jason: Yes.

[19:18] Jack: Now, however, they're being lumped in with trans people, and some drag queens are actually referring themselves as trans.

[19:22] Jason: Oh, for sure.

[19:23] Jack: Transgender or queer or non binary and all sort of stuff. You're still a man in a dress. You're still the rodeo clown. That's all you are. You're good at it. You're fantastic. But let's not try to confuse things here. Let's just call it what it is.

[19:35] Russell: Yeah, you said rodeo clown, and that brings up a point. The counterargument we quite often hear is that, well, drag queens, they're just clowns. It's like a clown performing for a child. But doesn't a clown go to clown school where they learn child psychology and they're observed by their peers to ensure that everything they do is appropriate for children?

[19:54] Jack: Well, and it's funny because the drag queens will argue, well, we are being appropriate. We are doing this. And yeah, there are some queens that are out there, and they're very appropriate. You're fully dressed, you remember to wear your party panties. And if you don't know what that is, don't worry, guys. And that's fantastic. And you remember, if you're going to be impersonating a lady, a very over the top version of one, you will sit cross legged and there's manners, and you're in front of a kid. There's things you don't do and don't say. Right. But yeah, there are things that they have accomplished, which is really great. However, a lot of the old school queens have no idea what's going on now with all these younger queens coming in and screaming trans rights because she's during her drag queen. And you can say solidarity. All you want, but at the same time, it's like, guys, everybody just look around, like, and see what's happened here.

[20:41] Jason: Yeah.

[20:43] Russell: And I'm not letting the church off the hook at all here. We're always told, well, one priest that's molested a child is one too many.

[20:50] Jack: Right.

[20:51] Russell: And that one priest has done something. And I agree. I do think that's one too many. But then when a drag queen like Desmond is amazing, the drag queens that were grooming him and things like that, and the drag queens that are dancing sexually in front of the children, because, again, that's what they know. They're only doing what they know.

[21:11] Jack: Yeah. That's all they do.

[21:12] Russell: And I get it. They need money and things like that.

[21:16] Jack: But there's time and place appropriate. Yeah, well, it's age appropriate and time of place. Time and place for something like that. If you're going to go out on stage and you see kids in the audience, I would really hope to God that you're not standing there in a thong, change your and you're about to freaking backflip and show your props to everybody and twerk.

[21:33] Jason: You have to be able to adapt to what the audience is. You always have to know who your audience is. And there has to be a certain kind of well, now it's harmless and tent behind it as well.

[21:41] Jack: It pisses me off because the drag queen should be leading the way right now in fighting against the craziness of it all, but a lot of them have jumped on the bagwagon of, okay, well, I'm actually doing this for a political aspect. Like, a lot of them don't even care about the kids at this point. They're just doing it to be political.

[21:55] Jason: And there are drag queens and there are drag queens who don't want to perform in front of kids.

[22:00] Jack: Well, yeah, those lots that are like, no, forget it.

[22:02] Jason: They don't want any part of it.

[22:04] Jack: Yeah, there's no audience there. It's ridiculous.

[22:07] Russell: But there's money. There's money for money grants and that I mean, they join some organization that's funded by a federal grant, and then they're going to get some of that money from that federal grant, which could, for that person, mean the difference between putting food on the table or not for them.

[22:23] Jason: Yeah, but still, you have to draw a line somewhere.

[22:26] Russell: 100%.

[22:26] Jason: You have to draw a line somewhere. Say, I'm not willing to do that just to get when is the gay.

[22:30] Russell: Community going to draw a line? Because it doesn't seem like they're not going to. Well, some have. I mean, what do they call the stay at home gays now? The ones that avoid the pride parade? They just stay away from everything and.

[22:39] Jason: They I'm a stay at home gay.

[22:41] Jack: Yeah. And a lot of us that stay away from ahead.

[22:45] Russell: No, go ahead.

[22:45] Jack: I was going to say I'm kind of curious to see how pride this year is going to go in Calgary because there's so many that don't want to be a part of it.

[22:54] Jason: Well, and like we were saying earlier, pride now just seems like it's a bunch of corporate sponsorship. It's all straight people who show up anyways. It's no longer our event. I feel like the gay rights or the gay community has really been taken over by corporate sponsorship and has been taken over by the heterosexual community, who kind of just want summer to hang out and summer to fit in.

[23:13] Jack: They forgot where we came from.

[23:14] Jason: Yeah. They don't know where we came from.

[23:15] Jack: They don't know. They don't care. They call all of us old gay.

[23:19] Jason: Old queens, tired, old bitter old queens.

[23:22] Jack: Tired and bitter and move over. This is the way of the future. And given six months, that same kid that said that not even going to be gay.

[23:29] Jason: Absolutely. All these kids who are saying they're trans aren't actually trans.

[23:33] Jack: No, not all of them.

[23:33] Russell: Do you think some of that comes from the fact that they've already revised history? They're trying to the Stonewall riots, they're saying now, was started by trans people. It was started by trans bricks.

[23:45] Jason: Martha P. Johnson.

[23:47] Jack: Martha.

[23:47] Russell: Okay, but didn't Fred Sargent say that Martha wasn't even there? And Fred?

[23:52] Jason: He wasn't there. She got there 2 hours later.

[23:54] Jack: So the story actually is that there were absolutely no trans people at Gay Pride. None. There was none. Everybody throws Marsha P. Johnson and she was a black drag queen who I always said he was a black drag queen. He said he was a guy. There's interviews of him out there saying this. And he even says in the article that he or in the article in his own recording, he didn't get down to Stonewall until after 02:00 a.m. And by then the whole place was on fire. He never threw a brick. What happened was it was a lesbian that was there. I forget her name. Sorry. And she was being taken away by the police. And she actually nope. And she had actually know, are you guys just going to stand there? And that's when the gays decided to stand up and fight back anyway. And Sylvia Johnson.

[24:37] Jason: Who? They're always talking.

[24:38] Jack: Or Sylvia Johnson.

[24:39] Jason: Sylvia. I can't remember Sylvia's last. Yeah, thank you.

[24:41] Jack: She wasn't even there. She was nowhere near there. So she never went downtown. And that's actually from both of their mouths. And she was actually, to be quite blunt, she was high in some park. It was the 60s. So, yeah, that's all it was.

[24:56] Jason: She might be here. This is the park. No, but yeah, they'rewriting our history to suit their narrative that they're pushing. And the people who are believing that the history that they've rewritten is true aren't actually looking into it and aren't researching or aren't talking to people, like.

[25:10] Russell: Isn'T that patronizing the gay community, not the lesbian or bisexual, but the gay community, to basically. Say no, you guys didn't do anything. It was trans women that did something. It's just further emasculation.

[25:23] Jason: Yeah, absolutely.

[25:25] Jack: What I find really funny is politicians will run with that story as well and say it was for the trans people and blah, blah, blah. Who is advising these politicians? The Edmonton mayor said that I know, I know. It was the trans people that started the gay pride movement. There was no trans people.

[25:37] Jason: None.

[25:37] Russell: Yeah, they weren't the Edmonton if I remember correctly. Didn't the Edmonton Pride Committee dissolve because of the involvement of all the BLM of BLM? Did they everyone resign because they're like, you know what?

[25:50] Jack: There was a year there was no pride in Edmonton because I wasn't on the fourth BLM had come in and know, they tried to take over and they did in fact get very far. But then the entire Pride committee said, okay, no, we just yeah, they because.

[26:05] Russell: They stacked the deck, a whole bunch of them went in a couple of days before the AGM or whatever and they all bought memberships and then they went in there and they all know these things and everyone just resigned if I remember correctly. I could be wrong.

[26:17] Jack: Everyone stepped down from it. Which is really funny because all of the quote unquote gay leaders in Edmonton who have all blocked me, I don't know why.

[26:24] Jason: I can't imagine, I don't can't imagine.

[26:27] Jack: All sided with know and if they did say everybody's too scared, everybody's too.

[26:31] Russell: Scared, why are they scared?

[26:33] Jack: I don't know. That's the stupidest thing in the world.

[26:34] Jason: They're just scared.

[26:35] Jack: They're scared to speak up and say no, shut up. That's all you got to do is just say no and shut up. If they cry, oh my God.

[26:42] Jason: Because you get canceled, right?

[26:44] Jack: Being canceled is really fun.

[26:45] Jason: No, but that's why though, because their voices will no longer be heard if they don't go along with the group.

[26:51] Russell: But isn't that kind of homophobia within itself basically saying you need to do this or else you will cancel you.

[26:57] Jack: The whole thing is homophobic. The whole thing is homophobic. All of it is. And it's no longer about the gay movement at all.

[27:06] Jason: Not at all.

[27:08] Jack: Everything's been taken away. Everything's been hijacked.

[27:11] Russell: Everything's just yeah, you hear from the corporations and of course the corporations have gotten because it's so easy to get behind Pride as a corporation, right. It's super easy to throw a rainbow on your logo.

[27:22] Jason: Everyone does it.

[27:23] Russell: And to say, oh yeah, we support gay people. Thing is, I saw this commercial once and it was two guys and they were in the commercial, it's like, oh this bank and we support Pride. And I'm like, oh, does that mean if a gay person goes to the bank they're going to get a discounted bank account or something?

[27:37] Jack: Isn't that funny?

[27:38] Russell: You know what mean? Like what does that mean? What does that mean? To support it?

[27:42] Jack: And that well, and it's nice that businesses show their support and everything. For example, the NHL and all that, but then when you're pushing it way too far to the point where you're actually condemning people and players and all that sort of stuff for not participating, and then you have the crazed, very small vocal minority that come out there and go, oh my God, trans rights.

[28:03] Jason: And you're homophobic and blah, blah, blah.

[28:07] Jack: I think a lot of them have woken up to, okay, well, maybe we've just done a bit too much. Yeah.

[28:11] Jason: And those words don't even really mean a lot. Homophobic transphobia doesn't mean anything anymore.

[28:17] Russell: A phobia is an unnatural fear. Revulsion. Are either of you scared of transgender people or transsexual people?

[28:25] Jack: I'm scared of Lois Cardinal.

[28:28] Jason: Lois is a really good friend. No, of course not. There's no phobia.

[28:31] Russell: Are you revolved by the idea of a gay person?

[28:34] Jason: No, of course not.

[28:36] Jack: But how many times do we get.

[28:37] Jason: Called oh, we get called homophobic transphobic.

[28:41] Russell: Is that not part of the idea of revising language in that we'll just call you a homophobe or whatever, but.

[28:47] Jason: Shut you up to silence you, essentially, because you can't come back from that if you're labeled a homophobe or transphob or something. It's very hard to come back from.

[28:56] Jack: That unless you're gay or trans. And then you can go, what did you just say?

[28:59] Jason: And then you can say, well, actually.

[29:00] Jack: I'm gay, and then that shuts them up because generally the people calling you a homophobe are not even gay, they're straight. But the ones calling you an internalized homophobia, these little twinks and all this sort of stuff, that do that. No, you have internalized homophobia. No, you're just a geek with no friends whatsoever. You jumped on the bandwagon to try to make more friends and now you're going to go out there and attack anybody you can to make yourself look important, when all you are is a geek that sits at home and watches pornhub.

[29:24] Jason: And that's the problem. There's just too many people who've jumped on this bandwagon and they don't actually even belong. They don't even know they're not a part of our community.

[29:30] Jack: And back in the day, we used to call each other out. There was no sacred cows. We would just call each other out. Oh, I think this and this and this. We just look at them and go, are you fucking crazy? What is wrong with you? Right?

[29:41] Russell: How does the gay community fight back? How does the gay men, the lesbian women, the bisexuals everyone calls fence sitters and doesn't believe them? And the transsexuals I'm joking, but I know what you mean. And the transsexuals and how do they take it back? How do they return to some form of semblance of normal?

[30:03] Jack: It's interesting when someone comes at you one on one and tries to push views on you and all sort of stuff you can have a conversation and you can sit there and have an actual conversation. But when you go up against a mob, there is no conversation because they all have the same hive mind of your homophobic or a transphobic. And all they will do is they don't want to have a conversation with you.

[30:24] Jason: No. They've come there with their conclusion of you. They haven't even spoken to you yet.

[30:27] Russell: No, I would never recommend arguing with a mob. There's no totally no point.

[30:33] Jack: So the thing you can do is you can either try to have one on one conversations. If you do come out and speak out publicly, you will be canceled. They will try to come after you all they can, but just know you're right and those people don't pay your bills. Who gives a fuck what they think?

[30:46] Russell: But what happens when they get you fired from your job because of well.

[30:51] Jack: You can sue them, can you? Yeah. You can go after them for defamation.

[30:57] Jason: Employers can also fire you without just cause, in which case there's really no fight back.

[31:02] Jack: And that is kind of a scary thing and that's something that you would want to take to a higher level. Like, I myself personally have absolutely no interest in going and protesting a bunch of crazed straight people calling themselves queer. I don't care. Or some little twinks that have anyway, I have no interest in that whatsoever. The fight that I would have is to go right up to the political, right up to the top. I have no interest in talking to these people. They're nuts. So they're not going to understand a thing we're saying and they don't care to.

[31:31] Russell: Let's talk about the word queer for a second.

[31:34] Jason: God.

[31:35] Russell: Okay, that's the word, the word queer. Now, we've heard lots of organizations talk about we need to take back these stigmatized names. We've seen it in the African Canadian community, we've seen it in other communities where they want to some lesbians taking back the word dyke in that.

[31:53] Jason: Yeah, dykes on bikes.

[31:56] Russell: Even some gay men trying to take back the word faggot in that. But the word queer has a lot of connotations that come with it. The word queer, is that something that how do you feel for that in the vernacular? Now, when you hear that word just.

[32:12] Jason: Thrown about so loosely, it just encompasses anybody who feels like they don't fit in.

[32:16] Jack: Yeah, gay, straight, it doesn't matter who.

[32:19] Jason: You are, anyone can be queer.

[32:20] Jack: You're queer.

[32:21] Jason: But back probably for you too, maybe yourself. But when I was younger, queer was a derogatory term. There was nothing positive about being queer. Yeah, there was nothing positive about it. And I still don't think there really is, except all these people have jumped onto it, globbed onto it, who want to sit under this umbrella of what it means to be queer. Well, what does it mean to be queer?

[32:40] Jack: Are you gay?

[32:40] Jason: Are you straight? What does queer mean?

[32:43] Jack: And that's the thing. Everybody's jumping in underneath the queer umbrella. So when they say the queer community, they're not talking about the gays and.

[32:49] Jason: Lesbians, they're not talking about us.

[32:50] Jack: They're not talking about us. They're talking about everybody under the sun who's decided whatever they are. And they're calling it the queer community. And for me, it's always been the gay community. I've always been pretty vocal on that.

[33:00] Jason: Yeah, I'm the gay community, too. I'm a part of the gay community. Yeah. I'm not a part of the queer community.

[33:07] Jack: No. And there's a huge divide right now with the community itself. I always said that it was split 50 50, but now I believe it's a lot more than 50% that are actually done with this shit.

[33:19] Jason: So, yeah, because now there's more stay at home gays. But those are the gays that need to start vocalizing their well.

[33:25] Jack: And that's the problem. So many of them just don't want to get involved. They're like, It'll all go away, whatever. I don't care.

[33:30] Jason: It's not going away. And if it goes away, one day, there's going to be a lot of innocent children who end up who are victims of this. That's my opinion of it, that it's going to take a lot of kids who are being harmed before this slows down. Yeah.

[33:41] Jack: When the pendulum swings back.

[33:42] Jason: I was talking with someone on Twitter the other day. They were saying that there's no kids who are on puberty blockers. Transitioning children is not happening.

[33:49] Jack: Yes, it is.

[33:50] Jason: Oh, of course it is. So then I provided this individual a bunch of articles about this person, this person, this person, this person, and then they just block you. So they don't actually want to have a conversation. They want to fight with you until you prove them that you're actually I'm right and you're wrong.

[34:02] Jack: There's something that I learned a long time ago. Twitter isn't a real space.

[34:05] Russell: That's true.

[34:06] Jason: That's true.

[34:07] Jack: World is the Twitter world. And when you look at the big scheme of things, there is such a small percentage of us in the world that are on Twitter. Yes, we can get our voices across. We can find each other like minded people, and we'll all meet in person, which is and we have, like we're.

[34:19] Russell: Doing right now, before a couple hours ago, I had never met either of you before. We just talked on Twitter. We started following each other and talked.

[34:27] Jack: On Twitter and then it's good for that. I mean, it's great for building up those connections.

[34:31] Jason: But those people that are saying those things that this doesn't happen, kids aren't being transitioned. Peer to be blockers don't cause any harm. They're still out in public saying those things, too.

[34:39] Jack: They are. They're just not interested in hearing your opinion because you don't fit the narrative that they have.

[34:44] Jason: That's what I mean. It's not a conversation they just want to have a fight. And they don't come to the conversation or the fight with any backing. They just come with their conclusion that they've already decided upon. So even if you try to talk to them, you can't because they've already decided you're wrong. They won't even listen to your reasoning.

[35:00] Jack: I got attacked once on Twitter by some guy who came right at me asking me all these questions about trans people, transsexuals and what do I believe in and blah, blah, blah, blah, and how does a transsexual live and blah, blah. And I simply have to say, I'm not a transsexual. I cannot answer these questions for you. You're going to have to talk to a friend of mine.

[35:17] Jason: Yeah, exactly. You have to talk to a transsexual.

[35:19] Jack: Then you bring up the friend, oh.

[35:20] Jason: I heard this and this and this.

[35:21] Jack: At which point their entire argument completely dissolves.

[35:24] Russell: It's all based on antidotes and personal attacks. Ad hominem attacks.

[35:28] Jack: Exactly, absolutely.

[35:29] Jason: I heard this.

[35:30] Russell: Okay, well, that's a transsexual person that doesn't fit into that mold that they've viewed it as isn't really transsexual to them. They're somehow faking it. They could go through the entire surgery process even, and somehow they're still faking it.

[35:45] Jason: Well, even the people who are saying, yeah, it's absolutely insane. But the people who are saying that gender is just a social construct are the same people who say that if you don't fit into this mold of a little boy or this mold of a little girl, then we need to change you. But gender is just a social construct. Well, it doesn't make any sense.

[36:00] Jack: It's so funny when you see these tras on TikTok and they're talking about, well, your assigned birth at gender isn't what you are. Okay, well, when they dig you up about 5000 years from now, they're going to find out if you were a boy or a girl because all those parts that you had added or taken away are going to be gone and.

[36:15] Jason: You'Re left your skeletal frame. Sorry, go ahead.

[36:18] Russell: Do you think archaeology is transphobic?

[36:21] Jack: No.

[36:23] Jason: Absolutely.

[36:24] Jack: Totally transphobic. Of course.

[36:27] Jason: Science.

[36:29] Russell: Are we talking science? Are we talking the science? Because not the science. What we've learned over the last few years seems to be that there's two forms of science. There's science that we learn in school and science in textbooks. And then there's the science which says that you can literally change your sex, which you can't.

[36:50] Jason: Which you can't.

[36:51] Jack: You're still going to be a boy. You're still going to be a girl. That's all there is. You don't see cats and dogs running around.

[36:56] Jason: You can self identify however you want. You're still going to be either male or female as far as I'm concerned.

[37:01] Jack: Yeah. Your son is gay.

[37:06] Jason: That's all there is to it. Well, in a long time that's the case. It's just it's these little kids. I know. I keep going back to kids but that's what I'm most concerned about, is that these little kids who might not fit the mold of being you're going to be a tomboy or a little feminine boy and that there's somehow something wrong with that all of a sudden. Why is there something wrong with that? Why can't you just be who you are? And they say, well, we're being who we are. Well, you're not. I don't think that's the case.

[37:32] Russell: This is kind of hypothetical. Why does it seem like the people have championed the cause of ending gender ideology and that why has it mostly been Conservatives? We're seeing more people on the left, like the classical leftists and stuff like that. But it's really it's been even look at The Daily Wire, for example. I mean, I know people say things about the Daily Wire and Matt Walsh and that, and they are very Christian in that. But are they really looking at getting rid of gay people? Are they looking at returning us to sanity? Why, do you think? Is it a grift in the Conservative sphere?

[38:10] Jack: I think the Conservatives need to speak up more. I do, too, because they've been very quiet. They'll say little things, but they won't come right out and say, okay, you guys smart enough? Stop acting so fucking crazy. I swear a lot. Sorry.

[38:21] Russell: That's all good. You're allowed to swear on my podcast.

[38:24] Jack: Awesome.

[38:24] Jason: Okay.

[38:27] Jack: Thank you. I think that they should do that anyway. But no, I think the left like to turn it, especially NDP and Liberal. They like to spin it as, oh, my God, they want to take away your rights and blah blah blah blah, and they all freak out. The sky's falling. It's not what they're doing. But I do think that the Conservatives have been very quiet on the whole matter.

[38:49] Jason: Too quiet.

[38:50] Russell: Well, Conservative influencers have been very vocal. But the Conservative Party parties themselves, except for the.

[38:59] Jason: Max max has spoken up about it.

[39:00] Jack: Max spoke up about it and he said something interesting. I did a Twitter space with him once and it was very interesting and it stuck with me. He said, It shouldn't even matter what your political stance is.

[39:10] Jason: It shouldn't.

[39:10] Jack: This is a right or wrong situation.

[39:13] Russell: Well, I think of Stuart Parker. I follow him on Twitter and that I was following him for a while. Stuart Parker is a communist. He's a literal Marxist. He believes in Marxism. He is kind of like Scott Adams, who is a Liberal and that has found an audience with the Conservatives and that like, Stuart Parker has found this huge audience in the Conservative spheres even though he vehemently disagrees with a lot of Conservative values and stuff like that. But yet he's been canceled. Like, literally, he got canceled. In fact, he got canceled twice. And they're still coming after him any chance they get. But why does it seem like a lot of these classic Liberal leftists like bill Maher, Pierce Morgan.

[39:59] Jason: Yeah, but I mean, classic liberals.

[40:02] Russell: And even they're turning around, they're saying, hey, something's weird with this, because this.

[40:07] Jason: Shouldn'T be a political issue. It is about what's right and what's wrong.

[40:11] Jack: The more that comes out and the more truth that comes out and there's a lot of it coming out, the more people are actually seeing what is actually happening and where it's going to lead to. So I think that that's probably a big factor, I guess you could say.

[40:26] Jason: And when the left gets proven wrong, they just get louder.

[40:29] Russell: They double down.

[40:30] Jason: Yeah, exactly.

[40:31] Russell: Well, that's been my big criticism of the right, is they're so keen to apologize and they're so keen to attack each other for little mistakes and little stupid things. I see it all the time, people at each other's throats while literally liberals just continue to win elections and all that. But conservatives like, well, I got my one up on you.

[40:49] Jason: And that well, that's the thing.

[40:51] Jack: The left has always been much more organized than the right. Way more organized. But that's because they have a hive mind, the conservatives. I believe that they really do need to speak out more and just bring sanity back.

[41:08] Russell: What should their messaging be then? How do they message this across in a way that they can make the message clear without and while still deflecting all the blows that they're just bringing back Christian fundamentalism and stuff like that.

[41:20] Jason: But gender ideology is just it's harming people. It's harming young people more than anything.

[41:25] Russell: But for the left, they say it's saving lives. And I'm not agreeing with the left. I'm playing the devil.

[41:30] Jason: Then if you look at statistics, they're not saving any lives. That's the thing. As soon as you say you want to transition, they're all supportive. Yeah, we'll help you. We'll do anything we can. And then you say, okay, actually, this was wrong. I was influenced, or whatever, and now I would like to detransition. And you are invisible. Yeah.

[41:45] Jack: And then that's the funny thing.

[41:45] Jason: They don't want anything to do with you. Yeah.

[41:46] Jack: And then you have people going, well, I guess you should have thought of that before.

[41:49] Jason: Yeah. You made the mistake. This is your fault. Well, so whose fault is this?

[41:53] Jack: And unfortunately, it's the time in the world where parents are needing to be more involved in their children's lives. I mean, a lot of parents just want their kids to go to school. Whatever. Go deal with your teacher. I want to deal with you. I'll cook you supper and go to bed.

[42:04] Jason: Well, I read a study in the States about parents who are parents to transgender kids, and 71% of them stated that they felt pressured by doctors to support their child's transition.

[42:17] Russell: Well, what's the line? Would you rather have?

[42:19] Jack: Would you rather have a trans, a.

[42:21] Russell: Live son, or a dead daughter?

[42:23] Jack: That's right. Yeah.

[42:24] Russell: Can you imagine telling a parent that.

[42:26] Jack: Yeah, well, a parent freaks out and goes, oh, my God, I guess we have to get used to this. And also stuff, which is a conversation that you probably never needed to have all the kids needed to do with. Okay. If you don't parents know. That's the funny thing.

[42:37] Jason: Parents do know. Parents, they might not want to believe what they know, but they know.

[42:41] Jack: But they know.

[42:42] Jason: Like, if you read the end of Gender, I don't know if you guys have read that book. It's really good. It does talk about how there are certain parents I think we kind of touched on it already, but who were more than willing were more willing to transition their child sacrifice as opposed to have a gay child. I'd rather you transition so you appear straight than have a gay son. Like, it's crazy.

[43:03] Russell: And there's social clout that can be earned with that as well.

[43:05] Jason: Totally. They're praised they're heroes. They're looked as heroes.

[43:08] Jack: Look at me. I've got seven transgendered children, all under the age of ten.

[43:12] Jason: There's a couple in the States, they're both trans. Yeah, there's a couple in the States that are both trans, and they have five kids, and all of their kids are trans. Give me a break.

[43:20] Russell: Is that a statistical improbability?

[43:23] Jason: It can't happen. It's not.

[43:24] Russell: How many celebrities have trans kids?

[43:26] Jack: I know. That's really funny because Angelina Jolie let her daughter daughter or son son dress.

[43:32] Jason: As a girl, called him John.

[43:33] Jack: Yeah, I think it was John anyway, but didn't go through with anything, and that child grew out of it.

[43:40] Jason: And now their daughter normally was a little dressed as a boy before, is a beautiful young woman, and she just grew out of it, which is what most people do.

[43:48] Jack: Most of them will.

[43:49] Jason: I mean, you look at I think it's Charlize Theron. She adopted two little black boys, and she's raising them as girls. You see them in public and they're in dresses and wigs, and it's like, what are you doing? I don't just I think right now it's very trendy, whether you're a celebrity or not, to have a little trans child.

[44:07] Jack: For the longest time, celebrities always wanted to have mixed babies. Yeah, mixed babies. Look at the good idea.

[44:13] Russell: Well, before that, remember when all the white women were adopting kids from Africa and stuff like that? That was like a big trend for a while.

[44:21] Jason: Madonna was doing it.

[44:22] Russell: Madonna did it.

[44:23] Jack: But then, of course, as we all know, celebrities have a really skewed version of life.

[44:27] Russell: What, they're just like you and I.

[44:29] Jack: Oh, no, they're not. Madonna looks like a foot for swollen, swollen foot.

[44:36] Russell: She's roughing it these days. Not enough for adrenochrome.

[44:39] Jack: Right? Yeah. And I think at the core of what they did in adopting children, all sort of stuff, regardless of skin color, regardless of sex, they wanted to help these kids and all that sort of stuff. And of course, celebrities are the quote unquote influencers, which they're not anymore, which is great. They're all grasping at straws now because nobody really cares about Hollywood at all.

[44:58] Jason: Well, aren't they all on strike and no one cares?

[45:00] Jack: Well, no.

[45:00] Jason: Yeah.

[45:00] Russell: Oh, they're on see?

[45:02] Jason: Yeah, exactly. No one cares.

[45:03] Jack: No one cares.

[45:04] Jason: Who cares?

[45:05] Jack: Nothing that comes out of Hollywood is good. Yeah, but I think that it's just.

[45:09] Jason: I don't know if it's a race issue or if it's just easier to control kids and raise them the way you want to raise them so then you can be seen as a certain kind of parent. Like those parents, like in that book The End of Gender. Talk about how parents are looked at as heroes. If you have a trans child because you were so supportive and blah, blah, blah, but are you actually being supportive, or are you causing harm down the road and maybe not realizing it, but not opening your sphere to see both sides of the story?

[45:35] Russell: What was her name? I think it was Helen Joyce. People talking about this issue at the higher level. And that was saying that, for example, these men that suddenly say that they're women and they leave their wife and their kids and they go and they start living as a woman and they expect their wives to accept that there's an expectation that their wives are going to accept them and go shopping with them and go look at neo vaginas with them and stuff like that. And these women, they are socially expected to support it because imagine, oh, your husband now, your wife, I guess, has become so brave now because even amongst living in the patriarchy or whatever of a family unit, they've decided that they're going to be their true, authentic selves.

[46:21] Jack: I'd be pissed.

[46:22] Jason: I would lose my you've been lying to me this entire time.

[46:26] Jack: You've been lying the entire time and.

[46:27] Jason: To our children, and you want me to go vagina shopping.

[46:31] Jack: And it would all be the stages anger, grief, sad grief, remorse. And then you come to acceptance and all sorts of things, but acceptance can come in the form of, okay, we're divorced, we're done. I mean, you're not going to give me anything I want now, like, sexually, emotionally, and like that, because I would be giving you all of my attention and all of my emotions to support you and your stunning and brave quest.

[46:55] Jason: I think a lot of women are being told that how a man feels is more important than your safety these days.

[47:01] Jack: Yeah.

[47:01] Jason: And, like, misogyny has been so internalized that women, some not all women, of course, but some women believe that how a man feels about themselves is more important than their own safety, more important than female sports, female bathrooms, female change rooms, all that kind of stuff. And it just blows my mind that there's so many women that seem to be bowing down to this, and good luck with that. That's not going to end well, I don't think. No, for the women's rights movement. Sorry.

[47:26] Russell: Very Jordan peterson. Like when you just said there it.

[47:29] Jason: Was, I was like, oh, yeah, there you go. Okay, to your question, if I was in a relationship with someone and they all of a sudden came out as trans, would I accept them? I might accept them as I'm being trans, but that doesn't mean I want you in my life anymore and I'm going to support you.

[47:46] Jack: What's really funny is that for the longest time, being a drag queen, you could not get a boyfriend.

[47:51] Jason: Absolutely. For sure.

[47:52] Jack: Nobody wanted to get a drag queen because why? Because you wanted to dress like a girl.

[47:56] Jason: But now so for a lot of.

[47:58] Jack: Us that were in Dragon, all sort of stuff, it wasn't about I did not feel sexy in those clothes at all. I was seriously there to be funny performer. Performer and perform and all sort of stuff. Put on a show. You're just a little actor. That's all you were. But now it's the latest trend. And all of these I don't know why, but all these straight men, not all these straight men, but a lot of straight men are coming out and oh, yeah, I'm really into trans people.

[48:21] Jason: Trans people.

[48:22] Jack: They would call them tranny fuckers back in the day. And those are the big advocates for having all this happen like all these guys are.

[48:30] Russell: But that was viewed as a fetish back.

[48:32] Jack: It's still a fetish. And they're trying to normalize a fetish. That's what's happening.

[48:37] Jason: Well, an auto genocide, I say it all wrong, too, all the time.

[48:43] Russell: Well, that's like a medical thing, like Buffalo Bill, for example, from Silence. But he took it to the next level. It wasn't just wearing women's clothes. He had to wear their skin.

[48:56] Jack: It's all based on fetish. So what's happening now is they're trying to normalize fetishes.

[49:00] Jason: Yeah, for sure.

[49:01] Russell: Well, that was the whole thing, tying the conversation back to the beginning. Lumston and showing those kids those placards about fisting and things like that normalizing a fetish. But even in the gay community, that's pretty extreme, I think.

[49:14] Jack: Yeah.

[49:14] Jason: Oh, absolutely.

[49:16] Russell: That's not normal. Even amongst gays, they don't joke around about, oh, fisting tonight, or whatever.

[49:21] Jason: No, that's a small portion of that's a subset of a small community anyways.

[49:26] Jack: In the gay community, there's so many levels and there's so many layers, as we all know, in the whole community. And there's so many offshoots of this and that and the other thing. And a lot of those things are fetishes. Fisting is a fetish. Fisting is not a way of life. It's a fetish. All those other things that they're showing these children on those cards, those are fetishes, and they're trying to normalize that. And that's not you can't normalize a fetish to a kid when. The kid, the kid doesn't they have no concept.

[49:52] Jason: They don't even know what that no concept.

[49:53] Jack: They're throwing up, looking at the pictures, going, oh my God, that's disgusting.

[49:56] Jason: Why are you talking to me about this? I have friends in the gay community. Obviously, some of them are leather daddies, whatever you want to call them, and they fist, but they don't openly talk about it when we're together or have a house party or something like that, but they want to talk about it openly with these kids. Like, it's crazy to me.

[50:11] Jack: I went over to these people's house. I was new here in Calgary, I was really sad and all sorts of stuff, whatever. I was just in a depressed mood and everything, but I met these guys online and they seemed very nice and they said, Why don't you come over for dinner? I said okay. Great. Went over for dinner and everything, very nice guys, and we had a wonderful conversation. They were really, really lovely and all sorts of stuff. And then a few drinks later, I don't drink, but everybody else is drinking and out comes the thing. So listen, tomorrow night I'm going to get fisted. Would you like to come over and watch?

[50:37] Jason: The answer is no.

[50:39] Jack: I said, big yikes. I'm going to say no, thank you. Do you remember thank you for supper and oh, look at the time. Oh my God.

[50:49] Jason: Do you remember the eagle? I don't know if you're living here then, but I went to The Eagle once with some friends and then there was a live fisting show on stage and tons of us, like, so many people walked out because that's not something that most people enjoy talking about, let alone watching. It's a fetish, so it's a fetish. So why are you talking to kids about this? Leave these children alone. Let them grow up. If they want to be a part of that community, they will end up there on their own. They'll find out, they'll get there, they will get there and they'll be welcomed when they get there. But why are we pushing this on them? It makes no sense to me.

[51:25] Russell: Well, there was a parent on Twitter, no fault of her own. Her viewpoint is, well, they're going to learn about these things online or they're going to learn about these things anyways. And she wasn't advocating for it, but she wasn't advocating against it. She just thought, well, if they learn about it now, then they're going to be safer about it. If they ever choose to engage in that sort of thing. If they learn about drug use during sex now, then it just means that they're going to take precautions if they ever choose to do something like that. Is that something we want to normalize?

[51:58] Jason: No.

[51:59] Jack: It's interesting because so for any parents out there, when you come out, you're generally young. I was 16, I was about 1616 or 17. When I actually figured out I was gay and then I went to the gay bar because you make friends with people who are your age, so your kid's not by themselves in the gay bar. They have friends, they make friends and then they grow up together. They look out for each other. That's what the community is. That's what they mean when they say community is you're there and you're looking out for each other.

[52:26] Russell: You find, well, there is predators in the gay community.

[52:29] Jason: Absolutely.

[52:29] Jack: It's a good thing. Every community has every community has them and they should all be condemned. It doesn't matter if it's a church and lifestyle, whatever the hell, it's the same. But they all think that they're on their own and oh my God, these poor kids are going to have to learn about this and all sort of stuff. No, you find your friends, you find.

[52:43] Jason: Your tribe, you find your way.

[52:44] Jack: And if that tribe doesn't work out, you move on to another tribe. There's people that just search tribes all the time.

[52:48] Jason: And I think I can't imagine coming out as a teenager now because there's so much fanfare about it when I came out.

[52:54] Russell: There be even more social pressure now.

[52:56] Jason: Totally. Way more social pressure now. To be gay, you have to be a certain way, apparently. And I mean, you look at the three of us. I don't think any of us look like we're gay just by looking at us.

[53:06] Jack: I do.

[53:06] Jason: Well, I wanted to include you, so I didn't feel left out, but I think there's so much fanfare about coming out now and there's rainbows everywhere and we're wrapping rainbows and everything and just being gay. My sexuality, my sexual orientation is such a minor part of who I am as a person. I would never want to teach a child that your sexual orientation is the most important thing about you. Yeah, that's crazy. There's so many things I keep saying crazy, but there's so much of this that I just I don't understand.

[53:36] Jack: That's phobic. Yeah, it may not be homophobic. There's some sort of phobia there. I can't think of the word. My sexuality is the least exciting thing about myself.

[53:44] Jason: Me too. Like, yeah, I sleep with men. That's about it. What? Well, not very often anymore. I know I'm living in sin, but why is there so much fanfare about being gay or being trans or being a lesbian or bisexual? It's just like nobody cares. But now we're asking everybody, you have to care and telling people you have to care.

[54:04] Jack: And then you got these great ultra gay biker dads. So there's these spicy straits. He always use that word, spicy straight. Too much credit personally. And they're the ones out there pushing, protect trans kids. Protect trans kids. They're not even gay. They have no trans.

[54:19] Jason: They're not a part of this community.

[54:20] Jack: They're not a part of it at all. And they feel like they have to speak up, and it's like, nobody asked you to do that, and you're really embarrassing us.

[54:26] Jason: And if you're stop, if you're protecting trans kids and let them go through puberty because chances are they're not actually trans. Yeah. Protect them by letting nature take its course.

[54:34] Jack: That's why we protect screaming protect trans kids and force them to do this. You're actually pretty homophobic.

[54:39] Jason: Like, remember during pride month when there was that I forget where it was in the states somewhere. But it said armed trans kids.

[54:44] Jack: They were holding trans kids. They wanted to do that.

[54:48] Jason: Give them weapons.

[54:49] Russell: Well, I mean, second amendment rights in the states, that's all right.

[54:54] Jason: But it gives such a terrible I think it gives such a bad message. You know what I mean?

[54:59] Jack: I know you are, but everything that's happened so far has really pushed us all back so far.

[55:05] Russell: But they make it seem like they just want gays to go back in the closet, and they want gays to be eliminated.

[55:11] Jack: And that do you see who's but the people saying it are the ones pushing us back in the closet. Like, all the tras and all the crazed spicy straits and all sort of stuff, they're the ones actually pushing us back in the closet. And the community needs to wake up and go, holy shit. These are the people trying to erase us and push us back in the closet. Because what they're doing by arming children and having knives on t shirts and all sorts of stuff that is pushing us back in the closet.

[55:37] Jason: I want nothing to do with nothing.

[55:39] Russell: That'S completely do you think that's a recipe for disaster? It sounds like it's just going to I mean, they already had well, they had two transgender shooters in the states this year.

[55:47] Jason: I think they had four of them. There was four of them. And most people only know about the one.

[55:51] Jack: And it's funny because, oh, well, everyone blah, blah, blah.

[55:55] Russell: No one's saying in the states that trans people shouldn't have firearms. No one's saying yeah, and it's also.

[56:00] Jack: Funny, too, because they're all just, oh, trans people don't have the same rights as anybody else. What fucking rights do you not have?

[56:06] Russell: Well, okay. And I've heard this question a lot online, and I've heard it even in the corporate sphere where we need to stand up for gay rights in Canada and we need to protect gay rights. Number one, what rights does a gay person not have in Canada that everyone else enjoys? And number two, who is trying to take those rights away?

[56:26] Jason: Well, I tweeted that. It was a really quick tweet. It was, I'm a gay man, and I would like to know what rights I'm being like retweet, retweet, blah, blah, blah. All these comments, and no one could answer that question. I'm not being denied any rights if there's nothing that I can't do that that gentleman sitting there can't do.

[56:40] Jack: Who's stopping you from being yourself? The right to transition.

[56:43] Jason: Who's?

[56:43] Jack: Not who.

[56:43] Russell: They're trying to say society is stopping them, but I'm pretty sure every aspect of political and corporate entities there's no one I've heard of that's trying to say that. Even the Christians, they always talk, well, Christian fundamentalists Christianity is on a rapid fall and decline in Canada and around the Christian fundamentalism, do Christians have institutional power? Like, does the Pope make decrees in Canada?

[57:11] Jack: The people screaming these things, I don't think they really have any idea what they're screaming about, because tell me exactly what rights we don't have. What rights don't trans people have?

[57:22] Russell: Well, what I've heard and this is what I've heard, because I asked a similar question, I got a whole bunch of stuff, and I got a whole bunch of answers from the Looney Tunes crowd and all that.

[57:32] Jack: Yeah, great.

[57:34] Russell: And what it basically came down to is, well, they still get bullied. They still get made fun of.

[57:40] Jason: Who doesn't?

[57:41] Russell: And they still suffer at home, but you're never going to be able to get rid of that.

[57:45] Jason: Who doesn't get bullied? Everybody gets bullied. That's part of growing news for you.

[57:49] Jack: When you're an adult, you still get bullied.

[57:50] Jason: You can get bullied as an adult.

[57:51] Jack: Tell you to do things you don't want to do and you have to do.

[57:54] Jason: I just think why capitalist, right?

[57:56] Russell: Capitalist scum, I think, why are we.

[57:59] Jason: Teaching children that any amount of discomfort needs to be avoided? I did not get to where I am in life without going through a little hell and being uncomfortable at times. I think the same would apply to.

[58:08] Jack: All three of us.

[58:09] Jason: So why are we teaching kids that if there's any discomfort in your life, it has to be avoided? We're raising kids to be these weak minded victims and just offended by everything that happens. Take your finger off the outrage button for a little bit.

[58:21] Russell: Well and it doesn't build up resiliency. And then when someone does actually face hardships, they lose it and they snap. And that's how we end up with.

[58:28] Jason: Violent or they claim that they're being oppressed. Like, there was that video I forget her name, but it was a ranting video where she was talking about being gay and everything, talking about what rights are being denied to her. And she's saying that gay people or some gay people go out and they make a spectacle of being gay and forcing that upon other people, and then those people are mean to them, and then they're like, oh, my God, I'm so oppressed. Well, no, you're not oppressed.

[58:52] Russell: Well, here's the thing. There is societal norms, judeo Christian or not, there is social norms. And when you buck those norms, this is basic Sociology 101. This takes me back to literally, like, college year, level one sociology. There is a set of social norms you may not like it. You may not accept it, and you're able to buck it. We live in a free society. You can buck the social norms. That's 100% acceptable. But in doing so, you will attract unwanted attention because of it. Because of that. I mean, that's the whole point of protest stuff. I mean, look at Twisted Sister. Look at like Motley crue.

[59:28] Jason: Absolutely.

[59:29] Russell: David Bowie they bucked the trends to make a statement and they made their statements, and it came with criticism. And it's always going to come with criticism.

[59:38] Jason: And what's wrong with that?

[59:40] Jack: There's always been the people out there in the community that have always been on. You know what I mean? Like they're on no matter what. They're always lisping and flailing and their arms are flying around and they're wearing green hair and they've got high heeled shoes and they're pancing through a park going, look at me in my hiking heels. There's always people like that that are on all the time. And of course you're going to get some negative reactions like, oh my God, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you crazy to scream transgenicide? Because someone has said, could you please calm down?

[01:00:07] Jason: Give me a break.

[01:00:08] Jack: That's insanity.

[01:00:09] Jason: There's no transgenicide taking place.

[01:00:11] Russell: No, there's know, I hear about, well, these transgender women were murdered this year and that so many were murdered in that where we hear about in the States and all that sort of stuff. But the thing is, it seems like and it just seems to me, based on what I've seen, the cases they present, oh, well, she was a sex worker.

[01:00:31] Jack: See, and that's the thing.

[01:00:32] Jason: And I'm like, well, the thing with that, it's a high risk profession regardless.

[01:00:36] Jack: Of trans sex workers down in the States. And they're black and they say it's really funny because they're on the same side that we are. They're just like it's really funny because everybody's saying, oh my god, all these trans people are being killed. The majority are sex trade workers that are transsexual that are not telling their straight clients that they're actually men and they have a dick. So of course, when the pants come down, a straight man is going to freak out because he assumed he was going to be having sex with a woman.

[01:01:03] Jason: Exactly.

[01:01:03] Jack: But no.

[01:01:04] Jason: Does that give him the right to kill her? Of course not.

[01:01:06] Jack: No. Well, of course you don't.

[01:01:07] Jason: But if you're not going to get.

[01:01:08] Jack: Really think is going to happen, the guy's going to get really mad and.

[01:01:11] Russell: Beat you up and alcohol has been involved or other drugs or whatever.

[01:01:15] Jason: Yeah, absolutely.

[01:01:16] Russell: And that's the thing. When I hear about it, I'm like, well, transgender woman was killed. And I'm like, okay. And then I hear, well, she was a sex worker.

[01:01:22] Jack: And I'm like, we know why, and.

[01:01:24] Russell: I don't think that she should be killed. No, that's not me justifying in any way shape. Or form?

[01:01:28] Jason: No, absolutely not.

[01:01:30] Russell: At the same time, it's already a high risk profession. I mean, we look the Picton case, right? Picton went after sex workers.

[01:01:38] Jason: Yes.

[01:01:38] Russell: And a lot of these serial killers go after sex workers.

[01:01:42] Jason: Tons of them do.

[01:01:43] Russell: And it's very, very an easy target.

[01:01:45] Jack: And that's where the government should be stepping in, is to help these sex workers so they don't have to be there or provide them with the right tools, the right help for mental issues if they have them, because a lot of them have mental issues and they should be there for that. Not screaming protect trans lives, but screaming protect their lives and help them. They're doling out all of this money to go to the Ukraine. If you took those billions of dollars and actually sent them back to or used them here in Canada or in their own countries, then you'd be helping these people and maybe they won't turn to that sort of.

[01:02:24] Russell: Mean. I don't want to tangent too much. I feel like we could have a whole other hour long conversation, for sure on sex workers and the dynamics of it and the ethics of it, and that at the end of the day, my hope is that sex workers are able to find meaningful employment that doesn't involve using their bodies. And that that would be my hope overall.

[01:02:45] Jason: Yeah.

[01:02:46] Jack: I've got friends in the trade and they're very careful and they're great. The best, most real, down to earth people that you've ever met in your entire life. They're fantastic and they're smart. They're not running out there trying to fool anybody. This is what I am. This is what we're in that store for tonight. The issue is, and drugs aren't involved in a lot sort of stuff. Not all sex workers are crazy drug addicts.

[01:03:06] Russell: That's a negative stereotype.

[01:03:07] Jack: It is, absolutely. I mean, my friends, they're fantastic and the funniest people you've ever met because they're so real.

[01:03:15] Russell: I think you kind of have to be a fear sex worker. I think you got to laugh at.

[01:03:18] Jack: Yourself and go, oh my God, what do I do for a living?

[01:03:21] Jason: But some people choose to be sex workers, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

[01:03:24] Jack: Some people choose anyway. Yeah, we're going to tangent off no tangents.

[01:03:29] Russell: I just wanted to bring that up as a common sort of thing. What in your mind is an easy win to fight back against gender ideology? What's an easy win that could be instituted tomorrow by lots of people that you think could help?

[01:03:45] Jack: You can't transition until you're of age and you've gone through puberty. There you go.

[01:03:49] Jason: Yeah. Allow kids to go through puberty and stop asking them to be a part of adult conversations and asking them to.

[01:03:54] Jack: Make adult decisions until they're actually of age where they can do that. If you can't drive a car, you can't change your gender, you can't consent.

[01:04:00] Jason: To lifelong medicalization when you're a child. No, that's not a thing. You don't understand the consequence.

[01:04:06] Jack: As a girl, go for it. You want to dress your kid as a boy, go for it. If that kid grows up and hates you, that's on you.

[01:04:11] Jason: And I know we've all probably read this stuff online, but if your child came to you and said, I feel like I'm born in the wrong body. I feel like I should have been born without arms, you're not going to take your child to a doctor to have their arms removed. You're going to take them to some sort of therapist yeah.

[01:04:24] Jack: To say, okay, well, tell us about.

[01:04:26] Jason: This, as opposed to but like, kids.

[01:04:28] Russell: Are getting it sounds like conversion therapy.

[01:04:30] Jason: It absolutely is. I mean, there's stories of people who've gone, like children and their parents who've gone and seen doctors and plastic surgeons and after a 30 minutes consultation, they agreed to remove the breasts of these teenagers. Like that's.

[01:04:42] Russell: Chloe Cole.

[01:04:43] Jason: Exactly. Chloe cole 100%. It's unreal. So stop involving kids in these adult conversations. Stop asking them to make adult decisions and just let them grow up.

[01:04:52] Jack: Let them grow up.

[01:04:53] Jason: Let them grow up. Let them go through puberty. Everybody's freaking out and they will find their way. They'll find their tribe, they'll find their path through life, just like all of us did.

[01:05:00] Jack: Wait till they're of age.

[01:05:02] Russell: My quick win is that if you're concerned about this, you need to be talking to your members of parliament, you need to be talking to your senators, you need to be writing to them, you need to be getting them on the phone and making your voice heard, because they're only getting one side of the conversation right now.

[01:05:18] Jason: Absolutely. If you're concerned about this, you need to start using your voice.

[01:05:21] Jack: There's more and more people speaking up in Alberta against gender ideology, and it's fantastic so that people are actually waking up and there's a ton from even from within the community because it's getting embarrassing for everybody involved.

[01:05:34] Jason: Yeah, it is embarrassing that people think that we're in support of this, because most of us are not. I would say most of us aren't.

[01:05:40] Jack: People look at you now funny. They're just like, oh, are you going to have pronouns? Really? I'm going to have to call you that.

[01:05:47] Jason: But yeah, you're right, we should be. Everybody who's concerned about this should be using their voice, writing letters, sending emails.

[01:05:52] Jack: To people who have and don't bother with protesters and can make decision circuit. That's just going to do no good. They are there to cause a spectacle and get their 15 minutes of fame and get their little checks from the government for doing it.

[01:06:04] Jason: Yeah. I think everybody, just like you said, needs to start using their voice and speak up if you're concerned about this, absolutely speak up because there's a lot of us who are concerned about it and a lot of us are speaking up, but we need everyone one's voice to protect these kids. As far as I'm concerned.