Coffee Breath Conversations

Coffee Time with Elizabeth Desgranges

March 07, 2020 Russell Barton Episode 1
Coffee Breath Conversations
Coffee Time with Elizabeth Desgranges
Show Notes Transcript

In this first episode I interview Elizabeth Desgranges. Elizabeth is a good friend of mine and was interested in showcasing her knowledge on nature. We talked about several different topics that are described in more detail in the podcast. Social media links for Elizabeth for those interested are below: Ellie Desgranges Photography

Support the show

spk_1:   0:00
My name is Russell Barton, and I'm the host of Coffee Breath conversations. This week I interview Elizabeth to Grand Ah, forced ecosystem technician and a friend of mine. We talked about moving provinces, online education would've forced ecosystem. Technician does dirty hotel rooms. Wilderness safety, technology, nature photography are climate change and recycling programs. Today, my guest is Elizabeth the garage. Elizabeth is a forced ecosystem technician with the sketch on four service. She also is a civilian instructor with the Cadet corps in Canada. She's a nature photographer. She grew up in Quebec around Montreal before moving out west. And she has a degree from the Royal Roads University. Environmental Sciences. Thank you very much for coming on to the podcast today.

spk_0:   1:04
Thanks for having me.

spk_1:   1:06
So moving out West?

spk_0:   1:10
Yep. There was a big trip, I guess. Pretty ballsy move for a 19 year old. Yes.

spk_1:   1:19
Any big differences between Quebec and Saskatchewan?

spk_0:   1:23
Uh, actually, wouldn't you? Wouldn't think so. But each province has its own little culture. Um, and it's ridiculous. All you just like, cross the border and you can feel it automatically. And I've been a federal and a lot of the provinces in Canada like before even moving out to Alberta and coming to sketch him. After that, I've been to new bronze awake in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Ontario for a little bit as well and, of course, a group and come back. So, like I've been visiting a lot off Canada and those you can really feel like every people in every province really has its own little set of expressions and body language. Each province has its own body language, its own set of expressions, and it's very, very different. Just, uh, just it's very ally in a ting at first is your grow up. You learn a set of social cues and you move out west to told Berta, and then all of a sudden it's a different world. Literally. People speak a different language, and, sure, I could speak English at first, but it's not like I'm as fluent as I am now, and after that, after a while, I just, uh it took me five years, probably to just really gonna settle and figure and call, call it, call myself comfortable there and feeling at home. But, you know, you can still feel, um, unwelcome. and certain police is like small towns, Clicky or whatever reminded, a year not from here, here and there every once in a while. So that still sucks. But I don't think there's anything to be done about dot It's just even if I was from Saskatoon and I'd be here, could still no in virtual is here. I could just go down to the store and people wouldn't know me because I didn't grow up here so that probably feel the same same way as they find from Quebec.

spk_1:   3:32
Well, do you think people they're just living in Quebec have a more difficult time when they come out to a place sketch one just cause it's a vastly different experience out here compared to Montreal and some of those areas

spk_0:   3:46
depends on long. You stay, I think, for tourists pretty easy to mingle and assimilate, I think because you're only here for a little bit, so you're not like getting to know the locals or for very long. Rightly, you're just having a very friendly count conversation in the store, usually or with the hotel lady or the shopkeeper, and that that's fine in the sense that you should be able to get along pretty good when you six months in the Oh, that's usually when you start noticing the difference. I think it would be harder than people think. But it's not the culture that the hardest part is just being by yourself. If you come by yourself versus if you come with family members, or if you bring your husband or Children with you, that makes a huge difference as well. Become a CZ an individual with nobody else that's a huge impact. Was all of a sudden here solely solely reliant on yourself? You can't screw up anything because there's nobody really to help you because you don't have the support group that you would normally right? So it takes a while to build up the kind of friendships that enables you to make a phone call. Can you help me out? I'm got a flat tire, etcetera, the those kind of things. So it takes a while for that to build up usually some people. For me, it's about a year. I usually call it a year into a new friendship, and I'm comfortable. I know. For some people, it's a lot faster than that But I don't feel like I know somebody until a year in.

spk_1:   5:20
I think that's a fair statement. I mean, coming from Ontario myself and moving out is the Scotch on? At first, I didn't like you, said, didn't really notice anything different. I said, Well, you go to a new town still, as McDonald's and still has a subway sandwich, it still has a majority of the financial banking structures that you have in any major city and even small towns. You know, like my grand parents lived in a small town in Ontario, Bancroft and move out here to Birch Hills or Shell Brook area. And then you get that small town vibe that doesn't seem to differentiate, but I think the the vernacular. You know how people speak out here is different. E. I picked up on people in sketch. One have accents.

spk_0:   6:02
You didn't you did? Yeah, right over here that

spk_1:   6:05
I picked up on it right away. They sort of have Ah, I don't know howto describe it, but there's a very there's there's this, the sketch, one accent. It's not as pronounced as like Fargo. If you've seen the movie Fargo that they have a certain vernacular, an accent and it's not a stick, is Fargo, but it's definitely definitely present. I noticed it at least, especially from people that live here for a long time,

spk_0:   6:35
Right. They have lots of people Tell me that Prince Albert has its own accent within the province to like people from Saskatoon and Regina. No. When somebody's frumpy, just you have a different

spk_1:   6:48
Oh, yeah, they definitely have their phrases. I've never heard the phrase Ah, poor deadly before I came out to

spk_0:   6:57
the o word That

spk_1:   7:02
on And what was the other one? Not even I never heard of them before.

spk_0:   7:09
Oh, enough.

spk_1:   7:10
So now you said that you went to Royal Roads University. So how is university

spk_0:   7:17
online part time While I was working full time six months of the year, that was in the field too. So it was, uh, pretty challenging. But, you know, after six years ago, it had done, uh, I'm one of I wouldn't change anything. I'm very happy with the degree that I got on the education received, despite the cost and how long it took, because I can say that I've got 10 years working in the industry compared to my colleagues, who can say that they have about five. It's a huge advantage to be able to work at the same time as going to school. The 2nd 1 is the fact that you're applying what you're learning on the job pretty much every semester. So it reinforces your learning and you're able to better contribute to your job at the same time. And it kind of hopes you move up. You're able to demonstrates extra knowledge that way. And lastly, the fact that I was taking courses from different provinces, the the way did the program works. There is, ah, it's rural roads as an agreement with several institutions across Canada. So University of HK Wealth Universe, Athabasca University, Wilfred Laurie in Ontario uh, Tele HQ in foreign. Correct a bunch of them and you register with royal roads so that you can sign so you can take these courses at the other other. You know, universities as a visiting student and and you bring back those credits to the main university, and then they just put it towards your degree. So you do that for every single course. It's not like there's ah, handful of course is that railroads actually has in house, but that's but the rest is all across Canada. Ferris Institution. So you have to like, register every time. As a visiting students, you got to get a letter of permission to go to a different university. Gotta register with that other university, make sure that you're enrolled and that there is space for that for that course. And it's messing you want. Take, make sure that you don't miss your deadlines. The registration fee at each university. Those can be pretty hefty, like 150 to 100 bucks, right? Sometimes you have to pay those so a little bit more costly that way. But like I said, taking courses from different institutions gives you a broader perspective on different on the on the topic as well. So I didn't learn compared to if I would have taken courses on Lee in British Columbia, for example, I would have learned the legislation for typical associated to that province relevant to that province. And if because I didn't, I've learned about Quebec's legislation on terrorist legislation. Alberta's B. C's not scheduling I'm figuring out now work against, but it doesn't matter The point is, you get a lot more out of that, that that program, then you would, too, in a normal program if you were just going to sit down. It's just it's really hard because you have to commit to doing the work after a full day's work, right? And I know you've done university well, working full time. It's pretty tough for it to be just said, coming home pretty tired after a long day and then just figuring out how bitter, get some reading done or work on that assignment that's due in two days, and

spk_1:   10:44
I'll definitely agree. I mean, I think all my universities, the future, I think traditional brick and motor universities there people are needing the interns of the workforce earlier to make ends meet, you know, especially with the economy, the way it is right now. So if they're able to take courses online, I've heard it from people that have university degrees old. The university degree you're getting isn't really because it was taken on line. I don't buy that. I'd love nothing more than to be able to go sit in a classroom for eight hours a day and go party it up afterwards, you know, live the university campus lifestyle. But the fact is I have to go to work.

spk_0:   11:28
Well, university is expensive on when you're talking world $2000 a semester, and that's like pretty much bare minimum for Canada. If it's better, universities will probably go up to 3000. That's a lot of money. That's six grand a year, 4 to 6 grand a year. It's ridiculous. Like how can anybody make it? I don't understand that. Like, I suppose a lot of them stay at their parents. That's a not a luxury I've ever had. So you know, you're stuck working because you can't. You gotta pay for your rent and you goto pay for your food and everything. It just gets price. Yeah, when you tell you everything

spk_1:   12:11
I know, definitely. You know, like the university system, the traditional one, it's it's very expensive and even taking classes. All mine. Like you said, Come home. You've worked all day, you know, like I was on a shift schedule shift workers schedules. So working 12 hour shift, a 16 hour shift and you come home and you realize like you still got a few hours, you got to stay up. And it's not just eight hours in a classroom working a few projects outside of class come back to the classroom. No, it's and you have to do interviews. And you have to do certain. There's certain criteria for different classes where you have to tune in at certain times and group work becomes difficult. So forest ecosystem technician Tell me about it.

spk_0:   13:08
Well, I worked in silicon culture. For the government, that means detect position. I coordinate a field program for collecting audit data on licensees in the problems forced her cos they have obligations under their licenses to with the government to reforest what they cut and under those obligation that has to be done within a realistic time frame so that they are able to meet all the certain obligations at your seven. And that's what I ought. It is the year seven. In the Year 14 obligations. They have to conduct a regeneration assessment survey so they go out and collect data on density of trees. The number of trees, species, the height of each tree for ah, for a grid pattern over the entire harvested area. So you've got a sample plots in a grid pattern across the block and you just collect data. And overall, you're able to determine if it's if the block is sufficiently or not sufficiently regenerated. Asper, the Environmental Code chapter and standard for Saskatchewan. And so I coronate. So we do an audit. We audit all the licensees a certain percentage every year, and we just make sure that we compare our data to theirs to make sure that everything is according to what they said. It is because there submitting data to us, and we have to make sure that the data is occurred, that it's not just something made up for it. So we do an audit. That's six months of my life, I guess. Coordinating. So we have summer students on. I just coordinated the program, making sure that there were all the work gets done. So go. So making sure everybody's safe go across the province from minerally to Hudson Bay and as foreign or, says the Raj sometimes and get to see a lot of cool stuff, I guess, but varies every day's the same and different at the same time. You rarely go to the same place more than two or three days in a row. Sort of worries? I guess

spk_1:   15:28
so. Doing a job like that? Do you have to be a note doors person?

spk_0:   15:34
I'd say. So you have to be like being outside. If you're an office cat, that won't work.

spk_1:   15:40
I've heard you say before that you have to spend. Sometimes you have to spend days outside. So is that involved Sometimes overnight camping or staying in cottage like accommodations or anything?

spk_0:   15:55
Yes, hotels for sure. We did a standard rate rooms and the closest nearest town we're gonna limited in where we can stay, right, because a location needs to have fuel. If we go, for example to matter. Leak. We travel two and 1/2 hours to meddle, and then after that, our blocks might be an hour north. So if for my blocks are north of matter leak, I have to be able to come back somewhere to get fuel that can keep traveling back and forth. So that's Ah, usually in Saskatchewan. That's too limiting. Factor is, uh, fuel the gas pumps. There's not and the opportunity we don't really stay or go camping anywhere again. The fuel kind of makes it difficult. Sometimes if there's no hotels will have to sometimes speak cabins, for example. But camping, I should say, is not unheard of in the forestry industry. There is. If you're working for industry, you'll probably find yourself camping. Maybe here there used to be very prominent before maybe like 10 20 years ago on it's kind of gone away. Now suppose Technologies really made a lot of really a lot of things easy for field workers, and we don't need Thio stay as long or us far urbanization over in the forest, right as just a lot more interconnect urban city. There are a lot more interconnected than they used to be in, so communications are a lot better. We have solid phones and sigh late texting devices, and you can get ahold of somebody just about whether you've got cell service or not.

spk_1:   17:35
So staying in hotels, I'm sure you've probably seen your fair share dingy hotels and motels,

spk_0:   17:42
not Thio. You could call it a safety thing safety hazard to just stay in those biohazard rooms, right? But who would want to stay in a disgusting room regardless? I don't subject anybody to that. So we've got at least a minimum quality standard. We don't stay in the worst rooms. That would be just disgusting. Nobody wants to to stay. They're

spk_1:   18:12
staying in. Uh, you're not staying in a hotel that they charge AA $30 an hour?

spk_0:   18:19
No, no, no. We standard raid rooms is no.

spk_1:   18:25
Yeah. The hotel says they have an hourly rate than you. Usually it's good to move on to another hotel.

spk_0:   18:32
That's it. Is there for the those options out there, Just try to avoid them. There have been some close calls where have almost had to it some point. But yeah, there's we're good. It's been good.

spk_1:   18:50
So do you think technology? No, you mentioned you know, the SAT phones. Do you? Do you think technology is really kind of caught up? Thio safety standards,

spk_0:   18:59
while safety is, Cole is a culture. It's not. It's a way of thinking, right? It's not just technology, I think, because you can have the technology and not believe in safety. Therefore, never use it, and it's completely useless. So without the mindset, you can't Technology won't help you at all, I think in scotch. One safety attitude is very different than what I've seen in Alberta just because of the oil and gas industry pushing safety to the next level. I think sometimes a little bit too far. But I understand also where they came from with the considering. It's such a hazardous industry to work in, and there's lost that can happen in the long hours and the levels of fatigue that these guys go through. I think it makes sense here. It's a little bit less developed, in my opinion. We're not there yet, but we haven't really had the need to don't have an economy as fasters Alberta House. And I don't think the people complain about that. The safety aspect is they're comfortable with, with it being not as hardcore as it is in Alberta, I guess, although they don't know what they're they don't have. So it's gonna funny that way.

spk_1:   20:15
Yeah, fair enough. I just think, you know, like 20 years ago. But lots of this technology that we take for granted now was so was so primitive at the time. No satellite phones and spot locators and things like that. So, for for someone in your industry, and definitely I think the the safety aspect is way better than it must have been time ago.

spk_0:   20:40
Yeah, I agree. Just 10 years ago, we rethink the spots were pretty new. Right now, sweet spot is a device where you can send a message to phone number or an email address to say that your oki or that you're in trouble, that you need help or to send an S o s to essentially get an a star helicopter, come and get you at some random location, and it's a GPS based. So they're sending your sending Zach coordinates, but of your location so they can get rescued. You severe. And, uh, an artery, for example. And mill of nowhere. Meaning two hours out of cell service. And the hospital is four hours away to closest hospital. What are you gonna do, right? Like you have no choice. If you don't have that thing, you're pretty much dead. So a life changer. I think it it has been for the industry sat phones. Also, just being able to keep in touch with the office if you if you need help. But you're not injured for you're stuck in a ditch, Got a flat tire something like that. When you in those instances without any devices, you're pretty much trying to get help from anybody passing by on the road. And you can wait a long time from some. Harry is before anybody's gonna get around and they have to stop. So life changing, I guess you

spk_1:   21:57
know the cost I still think is pretty high. I think we're seeing more people purchasing their own plans for spot and and so, like outdoor enthusiasts and them. But I still think the cost is pretty high overall.

spk_0:   22:12
Did you look how much a subscription was? I can't remember, because I know the device itself is like 360 bucks.

spk_1:   22:18
Yeah, some something. Well, the newest ones where you can actually send text messages on them are really expensive. They have. They have small ones now where it's just 22 or three buttons and your emergency button you preloaded online and those air like the simple ones. Now I think the prices dropped pretty good on those.

spk_0:   22:40
That's good,

spk_1:   22:41
but yeah, the newest ones. Yeah, they're still pretty price prohibitive. But I've seen some of the newer ones they have. If they register to your device. As long as your device has battery life, they can actually go online and they can follow and see where you're at and things like that. It's pretty interesting

spk_0:   23:00
they were using in Regent work Enrich Explorer. It's pretty much that he can even turn tracks on from Thea Online portal. So somebody in the office, If you forgot to do that, somebody in the office can turn it on for you and you device actually won't even tell you anything. It'll just like flip on,

spk_1:   23:19
Do you think? Do you think you know to be someone that works on the force? You still have tohave. Ah, good appreciation for the basics. Like I couldn't see someone like they're in their office. They're wearing their cornflower blue tie, their their corporate and instagram friendly, and that I couldn't see them surviving too long. If let's say the sat phone dies or whatever else, I think you'd still need Thio know how to use a map and compass. You'd still need to know survival techniques out in the forest is that stuff that's taught by the force industry is that stuff that is encouraged.

spk_0:   23:55
I think it's different for each employer industry. I've defending on the place again. Each company is different, but I tend to notice that industry spends a little bit last time joining their employees, then, for example, the government and makes sense, right, because training is very expensive on the industry side, survival skills gets taught Maurine the mentorship level so you'll go out with more experience, individual and in those kinds of things that you're gonna end up talking about during a work day on the drive back. Or maybe over lunch may Let's start a fire. It's pretty cold. So you have you ever started fire before? Okay, there you go. There's a chance Gonna think that the government they plays a very big emphasis on training, which I very much appreciate. So I've had a chance to take turning for exam on winters a wilderness survival in the winter. So refresher pretty much everything we see could ask. So you're talking are how to build a lean to how to start a fire was the best how to find water, how to get water signals that all that good stuff the pure basics, right. So if you don't even have a compass, you can get, somebody can find you. Essentially, I've also done ice rescue. I was just telling you just last month, if you go through the ice, what do you do? How do you get yourself out, then? After that, how are you gonna make sure that you stay alive even though your old wet and cold government definitely places a very big emphasis on training and survival skills, which is excellent, has to be taught. Obviously somebody that's just been working the office for 10 years and I've seen and I've worked with people like that, they tend to struggle a little bit more because it's a different mindset, right? Like he going to trees and you've got black flies by the thousands flying around you. And he got a keep working again. Just decided pack, pack it and go home because they're annoying. You just You gotta get through your day and, you know, he's so put on bucks, pray and suck it up. You know, you got a a net. Maybe, just you just you just gotta have that attitude of Just keep going and put it aside. Don't think about it. That's just a different attitude. You did You definitely need to have an outdoorsy personality he liked want you? You want to like being outside. You want to like nature at least a little bit.

spk_1:   26:28
Speaking about nature. I know you got a photography business and that you're not a nature photographer. So do you get chance? Take some pictures when you're doing your normal job.

spk_0:   26:41
Well, because I've worked for government. No, because then that would be using government property for lucrative profit business purposes. So that would be a conflict of, ah, pretty good conflict of interest. So I make sure that I don't, Which is unfortunate because men and stone you see through the trees sometimes. What do today? Last summer I found a set of elk sheds, like almost a stall, as I am a pair of them in pretty good condition. That stuff is the first time I'd ever find found one. In 10 years I've worked in in forest, it's not the kind of thing you find across you come across very, very often cool plants and the saying all sorts of wildlife. Um, Steve, my boyfriend again an owl just just this week. Great gray owl. He saw last summer a snowy owl with chicks trying to fly, just learning to fly. You don't you don't come across that very often, but for my photos, it's kind of an extension of what I work. I mean, five studying environmental sciences and I work in that industry. And of course, I at least a little bit passionate, very passionate, voted, I guess. I think you know the environment is our home and we have to be able to protect it or care for it. I try with my foes. I tried to kind of get people to light, to see things the way that I like, that I see them get them to experience the forces ideo. And because I have a background in the viral sciences, I understand the connections between this and the plant with the wild life and how everything kind of works together. So when I notice Fox just sitting in the side of the road and tilting its head, well, that just looks cute, right? But actually that foxes listen, can here has a very good hearing. He's obviously he's hunting, so he's still doing his head so that he can actually listen better or trying to locate where his prayers and being able to catch it. So it, as the fact that I have so much environmental knowledge makes nature looks that much better Thio to my eyes. So I tried to kind of provide a little bit of an education piece with the beauty that you come across in nature and together. It just kind of elevates the experience

spk_1:   29:12
being, Ah, nature photographer. How difficult is it to run a business like that?

spk_0:   29:19
Well, that would be freelance photography. For me right now, pretty tough gets here pretty much doing everything. Are you doing your own taxes? You doing on own ad men? Your business? The worst nightmare to me right now is marketing advertising. Go do all that by yourself of Turn for the road. Who's your clientele? What works, What doesn't work? I mean, I've never studied anything marketing related, so I'm 30 at all as I go so pretty hard and having to do all that at the same time is doing four O's and and editing the photos and trying to make a product, whether it's gonna be a frame or somatic prints or were posters or anything, It's just It kind of sucks your time. I'd much rather just be doing Fuller was. But if I want to keep doing that, I gotto duel This extra stuff on the sides would, um not my favorite thing, but I'm still full on board. I mean, it's only well, you've been doing it for about for just over a year. Year and 1/2 Nagase. But well, for was for 10 but the business side for a year and 1/2. Ah, a huge learning curve for her steep.

spk_1:   30:34
I think that's good, though. I mean, we're always learning. We're always growing and you never know if he didn't start. You know, you hear lots of people there, so I'd like to make this into a business. Or they like to take their hobby and go pro with it or something like that. And you hear them say it. But they never action. I listen a lot of ah, Gary V. He's a big social media marketer, and you know, there's people that think about. There's the people that do it, even if it doesn't work out. They have the experience. They have the they grow right. They grow and I've seen some of your work, and I think your work. It's excellent.

spk_0:   31:12
Thank you. Think

spk_1:   31:13
I'm really, really good work, very unique. Take on nature and,

spk_0:   31:19
well, that's good. That's what I try. It's difficult, considering it's such a competitive industry. You know, everybody's got a camera nowadays, so everybody's stock for How do you compete with that? You get a friend year old niece, right? So

spk_1:   31:34
you got a raise yourself above board just a little bit above everyone else.

spk_0:   31:38
You're gonna try and skills and in concept, you know, Um, so originally, that's what I was focusing on us, so Well, I got to make sure that my photos are better. Great. That's awesome. So now my foot was there better than what I've seen in some galleries. Excellent. That means I could probably just fit right in. But it's not just being able to get in. You're gonna sell your ideas. You gotta explain where everything comes from. You gotta have a rationale for what you're doing. Like that's like the art side of it that I've learned in the last year. Never even expected. Like somebody would have mentioned arts for Topper Phoebe A year ago would have was burning my hair. I didn't really understand what was going on and start looking at is all the really, really obvious stuff. So you see, like a building, and it's just lined up perfectly with the photos. Is all real nice lines and intersecting a very specific points. And the president. The composition is really good to me. That's really easy to make this boring, in fact, but and art as it's a different take on it if it's just lines, not so much. But if you explain that this is part of my industrialization, Siri's, or that you're actually going exploring industrialization, different levels across different cities or something, and that for is just one part of it several and Iraq a little bit different, but similar at the same time. Then, uh, kinda hard to explain. But

spk_1:   33:29
don't you think that's kind of cheating, though I thought I mean, I I'm not a big art aficionado, but I thought you're supposed to go. You observe the art from, ah, neutral standpoint, and then you develop an emotional connection to it or you don't. And that's why some people, it seems to me if you are going if you're going to an art gallery and the person says this is ah, a piece on I don't know, underwater basket weaving. And now they've already set the context of how you're going to experience that that art piece instead of letting the Earth peace speak out to you.

spk_0:   34:13
Well, they definitely say suggest not to explain things too much, so that the person will have a chance to put a little bit of their own in that piece and to associate with it and journey, whatever feelings are gonna get right, Yeah. I mean, I agree with what you're saying. It would be cheating if you if you could explain everything you were saying and not have. If the peace really doesn't generate any feelings at all, is that's not art, I guess. Yet art has feelings attached to it,

spk_1:   34:50
you know, going back to another another kind of author that I that I follow, You know, the idea that we put things in tow, different hierarchal structures, right? I look at the ceiling and I just see ceiling tiles. Someone else looks up at the ceiling that knows about that, and they can say, well, you know, like the ceiling was put together well, and it was, you know, it's structured Well, you know, I look at a carpet and I just if he even knows the carpet 90% of time, you go somewhere, you're not gonna notice that stuff. It's We've organized the thoughts in her head, and that's not really that important, however. But for someone that lays carpet for living or something like that, as an artist, you can get people to kind of see things from that perspective taken, you know, almost lining with your with your perspective because some people might see a forestry photo and they just see what's a bunch of trees?

spk_0:   35:53
Yeah, uh, it's really hard to do, but at the same time, you can't You can't tell them what they're looking at too much either. It that goes back to what we were just saying. They have to put a little bit of themselves into the photo to associate with it, and that's going to create a stronger emotion tied to that piece. Um, so it's good. Sure, there's always the people that look at things. In a very matter of fact, we trees a tree. Steve's like Steve Lee that trees the trees and mountains of mountain and wood cares, right? Um and then you just you have to have at least a bit of ah, artistic I I I supposed to be able to appreciate it, but being bull to put your vision into your photos, there's a lot more challenging than you think. It's easy to make a pretty photo. Okay, you get learned compositional rules and then you learn your camera. That's nice and dandy. Great. Now you can make a photo. Congratulations. But being able to put an idea into, uh into a photo and make make it so obvious that people get that from the first glance This tricky, for example, blooming personality serious. Some with this serious when I'm doing is I'm exploring the personality of flowers. Essentially, I'm a strong believer from my science background that plants have maybe not a soul, but they have. There are living organisms that grow and make decisions to certain extent, and it's not gonna be descended, don't have a brain, so it's not like us, but it's ah, organisms that decides to grow roots to the right and not to left. So therefore, it's some point it there. There's been a point where that plan decided to go this where, instead of the other. So there's a decision making process in there. There's been scientific Ativan evidence that plants communicate through their roots as well, and that some of them even been mentioned. Ultrasonic sound weaves plant screams when they're being hurt.

spk_1:   38:16
Yeah, I mean, I saw that I saw that MIM on the Internet, and it's ah, you know, scientists say that plants emit ultrasonic screams when ah, they're being eaten or picked. And then there's, ah, picture underneath and it says vegans, and they're looking kind of off in the distance, like trying not to be noticed. Ray.

spk_0:   38:37
Right? So, uh, who knows? You know what? If plants I think on we're just not attuned to to be or able to communicate with them? What if maybe just science eyes and garden, period. So I entertain that idea. So I tried to see I take photos in a way that demonstrate a little bit of humanity in the flowers. I guess so. I pick scattering native flowers so that it's something ah, a bit of educational, I guess So it's not just your everyday garden flower. You're gonna go and find those flowers. It's a little bit tricky. To begin with, you have to know where they grow. You gotta come across them. So that's where work helps me. So I make notes on my travels.

spk_1:   39:33
Come back later on. And

spk_0:   39:34
that's where he took

spk_1:   39:36
you. Scoped out the scene a little bit.

spk_0:   39:38
Yeah, exactly. You make it take a waypoint on my GPS and come back with my own gear. My own vehicle on my own time. Nice. So, uh so anyway, So I tried to I look, I look at the full on the flower for about an hour and then from all the angles possible and take if a few shots and after a while I sort of see a personality and from in front of me. And so I when I reached that point, and that's when I started taking a little bit more photos and I That's what this whole series is about. I'm thinking. I'm hoping that people buy noticing a little bit of themselves in the nature around them. Flowers, for example. People have been going to grow a bit more respect for their environment and maybe more appreciation or love for For that for what I am. Passion a boat and the fact that it's our environment, you know, without it, for we're dead. So it's very important, especially not just the whole climate change, saying it's really just it's our backyard like we don't have food without it. We don't have a home without it. If this was ah, the moon, we couldn't survive for it. So if we if everything gets to that point where everything is degraded so bad and turns out volcanic as volcanic as the moon looks like we're done,

spk_1:   41:04
you believe in climate change?

spk_0:   41:07
Yes, yes, yes. I have not come across an article, a scientific article that said that did not say that it was human induced. So it sends her Pa Jinich entre anthropogenic Diego anthropogenic. I have means that it's caused by humans, and the science proves that as far as I know,

spk_1:   41:35
I mean, I have no doubt that human beings play a significant role in the current modern day climate atmosphere. Absolutely No, they don't have the article, but I believe when the Fukushima nuclear plant had all that run off. It did something to the atmosphere and it changed things a little bit with the radiation. So I do think that we definitely have a role to play is stewards of the environment. I look at place like Canada. You know, we have recycling programs where we have initiatives for different environmental causes and a fair amount of environmental activism. But I noticed what it seems to be to me. I can't speak on anyone else's behalf, but to me I noticed that it's the Western countries, you know, Canada, United States and that we're being told we have to save the planet, fixed the environment. But we're not even the biggest polluters. I'm not saying that we don't have a ways to go. But you look at countries like China where they have days where it's so dangerous to go outside. They have to develop technology toe to suck small, go to the atmosphere so people could breathe, and some of these other countries where you look at their rivers and they're just full like people. If they throw garbage other, just throw it in the river.

spk_0:   43:04
Yes, I understand that.

spk_1:   43:06
So I mean, I think that we have. Ah, we have a ways to go and I believe that capitalism will fix it. I know that's a shocking statement to say

spk_0:   43:17
No, I'm not coming from you. I just

spk_1:   43:22
you. We all have cell phones now. Also, most people don't buy cameras anymore unless they're doing something professionally. Most people don't buy alarm clocks anymore. They use the alarm clock on their phone voice recording. Ah, lot of these things that used to contribute to our landfills and contribute to the usage of plastics and that we're we phased out now and they're still there. But they don't sell us much anymore. And I think that if if there's any system out there that can fix climate and and help keep a natural cycle be done through innovation and research and technology,

spk_0:   44:05
yes, that is correct

spk_1:   44:07
and human compassion for the environment, too. Not just looking at the environment and saying OK, well, you know people need to have less kids. What's it? You know it, Sze Not really. I don't think that's a viable solution, you know. Oh, every family has one less kid. Well, most families only have one or two kids at the most these days.

spk_0:   44:31
That's true. So it's not something you making that kind of sacrifice. You can't prevent people from reproducing. It's just that what happened?

spk_1:   44:41
Absolutely. So what do you think is the biggest impact that we can have? What's the biggest change people can have on? They're normal, everyday lives that will help the environment help with climate.

spk_0:   44:55
Mmm. Reduce your consumption is the biggest thing is the three R's essentially reduce reuse, recycle, right? So try to buy something. When you're reducing the ask yourself. Do you really need to buy it? The absolutely need what you're just about, or do you already have something that that can do? Is it a little bit inconvenient? But it still works, and you don't have to throw it away. If you do have to throw it away, try to sell it or donate it somewhere so that it gets reused by somebody. Lt's especially if it's in good condition, our heat seeing brand new couches of the landfill or for you know, like perfectly good shit, good condition. You two sinks or anything, especially electronics at the landfill, cause electronics have such a big because of the metals that have such a big pollution impact on the landfilling. Of course, the landfills designed so that it can, so nothing leaks out of there, but it's still landfill. They're some of the biggest ever emitters, so just lead shade. You know, that's the because you'll have rain and rain on the electronics, and then that'll start. The pollution's will start leaking out and it'll dissolve into the water, and then the water will just go through the soil. And with was a landfill. There is a barrier to make sure doesn't get into the ground water, but that if you happen to leave your laptop and in the water board or something will die, go sir into the environment. And that's extremely, extremely dangerous. You're talking heavy metals, and girls are the accumulated through the food chain so that we'll get into the fish and then I'll get worse. It will accumulate in the fish, and it would get into the walls, eating it and and to us later on, who happened to fish, you know, or eat them the animal that the bear that aid the fish or anything so it will accumulate through the food chain.

spk_1:   47:07
That way, I mean, I agree. I agree with reduce. I mean, I think that's the most important one out of the three, you know, reduce, reuse, recycle, reducing, like the dead Kennedys album cover. Give me convenience or give me death, right? Like some people don't want to be inconvenienced for anything. And I mean, we've seen the show hoarders and just some of the people that we know in our lives and stuff just piles up and piles up and years and years of stuff, and people buy things that they don't need. Really? They not saying that people should have to live in bearing homes, But this whole thing, where we feel like we need to buy things to put them on shelves that never have any real functional use except aesthetics and status and status, so that when people come over, we can impress them with with the things on the shelves, right? The

spk_0:   48:04
more stuff the wealthier

spk_1:   48:06
I am, of course, yeah. Yet it's the poorest people that buy the most stuff to look the wealthiest. I mean, you look at all those billionaires and that you look the way they dress and yeah, we'll throw on a really nice suit and some designer stuff when they're gonna go do something fancy, but they go in the they got pictures of them everyday life. And I mean, that's how they stay to that Rich, right is is I'm not spending their money left, right and center.

spk_0:   48:34
Yeah, right. Unless I get some point where they're actually have so much money, they just feel like it's DD whatever we want. But another thing I was gonna say is it? Just be careful what you buy at the store you can get. There's always different types of products that do the general purpose, but different quality, right? You can get the cheapest when you can get on the market. It's probably gonna break within a year, and then you're gonna have to buy another one. You really want to consider that as an option. First, it's a pain tohave it break in a year and having to replace it. Second, it's extremely heavy on material and material demanding. I tried. I can't usually afford the most expensive. That's the is gonna last the longest, therefore the better for the environment that won't break for five years, 10 years. Whatever So I usually try to go for a middle option, something that's gonna lost five, maybe 10 years. If I'm lucky. If you take care of it, I mean, is is a big thing, right? Just take care of your stuff so it doesn't break. Look, not everybody does that. It seems to be almost. Oh, just go buy another one. It's a lost art. You know, Maintenance made me take stuff. It's ridiculous

spk_1:   49:45
what they call it, right? Like they wanna have a right to repair legislation. Because it's it's so easy these days. People just throw it out, throw in the garbage. Oh, I lost a button on this. Well, I don't know howto replace a button, so I'm gonna throw the whole thing out and buy buy another one. Exactly. And even in even, like, electron ICS, I've Well, I haven't made a lot of money, but about old computers, and instead of throwing them out because, you know, like, oh, come by this computer $25 or I'm gonna throw it out. So I go when I pick it up and I go on Amazon, I pick up a Bluetooth receiver, Chip and and I pick up Ah, WiFi board or whatever, cause it's older. Computers generally don't have that. And I do a little bit of tinkering and and that next thing you know, I turn around and sell it for $150 to an office. Yeah, exactly on. Yeah, I make a little bit of a profit from it, but the key thing is, it's being used. It hasn't made its way to a landfill yet.

spk_0:   50:50
Yeah, exactly. Plus, it keeps you busy for a little bit and entertain and

spk_1:   50:54
you get

spk_0:   50:55
to learn something. I'm sure you've learned quite a bit along the way with trying to troubleshoot and problem solve everything.

spk_1:   51:02
Sometimes I love just watching stuff on YouTube, you know, people repairing old lighters and knives and axes and tools that are arrested up in that, and you just see Well, now they're not beyond repair. If they just take a little bit of love and a little bit of hard work,

spk_0:   51:22
some more than others, try to be mindful of what the contents of which you're buying. Two, right? So, for example, when I go get my vegetables at the grocery store, I try to stay away from everything that's already packaged. I don't need my vegetables package. If you go to the farmer's market, they're not. Package. Don't need the bad for them. Just washed them were instant. You're good, right? So you don't need to have them all wrapped up in plastic. I hate how they wrapped cucumbers. Sounds ridiculous, but cucumbers don't need to be raft. Why you're having you covers with plastic. It's more plastic, plastic, plastic. It's ridiculous.

spk_1:   52:02
Oh, kind of goes back to what you said earlier. You know, it's ah, industry. The food industry's is so over compensating for safety because of they've had issues in the past, right? So they the safest thing is like I've seen it before, like peppers will individually wrapped peppers and we'll wrap them in another layer of plastic and in the plastic tags that they put on for for pricing that those all add up over time

spk_0:   52:33
fresher, especially things that are double wrapped double package. You know, you buy a lake, maybe a box of cookies, for example, and that's what a cookie. The box of cookies is a packaging in itself. Then we have each individual row of cookie package and plastic. And then sometimes you even have each cookie packaged individually, even. Just don't buy those. If you don't buy those, eventually, this company is gonna make less money. Custom loan money to package. I understand why they wouldn't just try to save that money anyways. To begin with,

spk_1:   53:08
they pass the cost onto the consumer. So

spk_0:   53:10
exactly. So if you don't buy it, hopefully they eventually have less sales. And people would will eventually have to cut somewhere and do something changed our product to make it work better so that it's more successful. Hopefully, that will be the packaging if you just a Subasic boycotting policy, right?

spk_1:   53:35
Well, even even furniture Never really thought about it until

spk_0:   53:39
we're dog ate your account.

spk_1:   53:41
Well, which one exactly? No, I love the dog.

spk_0:   53:48
I know you D'oh!

spk_1:   53:49
But off gassing, I'd read this article but off gassing that when you buy the couch and and first of all, it's wrapped in all this plastic too. And all this stuff and then you get in the house and and as you sit on it, especially if it has cushions all the materials inside they're all cancer causing. And they're all bad for you. But it's comfortable, right? Yeah. People sit on these coaches and it off gases, and now you're it's being absorbed into your clothing and

spk_0:   54:23
into your house, being recirculated. It's crazy seem with like cleaning products in the home, you know? Well, they're all the same. It's like there's this big thing about pesticides, pesticides or bad. I don't really grow that right

spk_1:   54:37
mano glide glass a fader glyphosate. Yeah, yeah, Round up,

spk_0:   54:42
Yeah. Two. I've heard people sail. You can during that stuff. It's not. It's not toxic, and I'm like

spk_1:   54:51
they offer someone before toe. They pay the money to drink ground up that because they made the claim that it wasn't toxic and then they never went through with it.

spk_0:   54:59
I don't know. I don't know what I've heard it say it said about typically farmers. I don't the strongly believe that if you're using it carefully, I can see that if it's very done responsibly, it can probably worked. However again, convenience over what the better choice should be right. It still gets into the environment. I don't believe that it doesn't do any harm. Once glyphosate is meant to be is supposed thio bind to soil particle assumes that hits the ground. It's doesn't work anymore. It sticks to the to the soil, right? I don't know that there's been any research done on the long term effects off off the soil particles having glyphosate on him. And I know that it doesn't affect plant growth after that, but, uh, it doesn't have to just affect plant growth, right? What about heavy rain? Is it eventually going to end up in the water stream? At some point? I don't I don't think companies that there when they're submitting their the chemicals for to be approved by the Canadian government so that it can actually market and sell those products, you have to go through a lot off very rigorous testing before, like it approved, right? But this rigorous testing doesn't really extend beyond 3 to 6 months, so the long term effects don't get looked at very much, if at all. And so there's been load of actually have todo I've done ah, actually research to stop it where there's been a lot of long term chronic effects on for people ingesting a lot of chemical pesticide residue and their food. So we're talking, reproductive failure and a little bit of genetic deformities there. So so genetic, Definitely reproductive issues. So, uh, not being able to have kids or are the kids having deformities? And that's what the long term effects of ingesting a lot of pesticide residues. And I don't remember exactly which one it wa which pesticide or anything, but it doesn't. People don't really look at that. They don't consider that. And I thought it was grown breaking, actually. And nobody scientists are like No, no, no. I was just one paper. Just show that it's fine. It's safe.

spk_1:   57:28
Do you think? Do you think that you know, sciences, politically motivated at all? Maybe, Or they're bought odor because, yeah, there's these things. Oh, well, this is, you know, settled science for this or like you said one paper. And so we're not gonna follow through with it or anything or,

spk_0:   57:47
well, science Haas to be replicated replaceable, right? So if it's one paper once, maybe people other scientists will decide to replicate try to replicate it if they can, then it adds a little bit more. Validity gains credibility, but until somebody does that one paper once, that's not scientific. Scientifically, it's not

spk_1:   58:14
scientifically solid.

spk_0:   58:16
Yeah, I mean, conclusive. That's not conclusive. Yeah, you need at least three more. At least three to make it statistically really relevant, Right? In science and science, you need three's, a minimum of three of everything. The more the better it if you've got that's where they test 1000 people for the same thing. The Maur the better. So it takes care of the variability over time. So one paper probably is gonna get shelved. There's definitely political motivations. I think with some people you can get scientists working for companies. So they had told what they're studying a little bit within their wouldn't there special is right. But

spk_1:   59:07
it's like the old smoking commercials on that where they you know, scientists agree smoking doesn't cause any harm or whatever. And you find out this, that they work for big tobacco or whatever else.

spk_0:   59:21
Exactly. So I think we've seen a lot of that in the past. Tobacco for sure. And there was one recently to

spk_1:   59:28
Was that vaping?

spk_0:   59:29
Yeah, I think so.

spk_1:   59:31
Now we're there. We're vaping is the new smoking and here and there what the effects are what they are People are saying it's a good smoking cessation aid and I mean I personally, when I started vaping to quit smoking, I find I've spent just much money on beeping vaping. Stuff is, as I was spending on cigarettes, it's ah, unless you're like an aficionado when you're making your own coils and not sort of stuff like you're still having to pay for burnt oak oils and you're paying for the liquid. And I think since I since I was keeping that I think the prices dropped pretty good, though.

spk_0:   1:0:09
Well, that makes sense. It's so popular, it so basic economics. Yeah, um, we are getting back to like, political science. I suppose there's nobody can be biased and even gonna see that a lot, you know, working in the scientific community. Um, I'm not a scientist, but, you know, with that current of group, you do literature researching and try to look at you writing a paper. He tried to look at everything that on the topic, but you only use what's for 11 to you, and you try to be objective. But people can't be objective because we're not objective people, you know, like nobody can be objective 100% of the time.

spk_1:   1:0:55
Why? And I tonight. And I think it's good that we have disagreements. I mean, you know, I've heard someone told me a statistic. They said nine out of 10 scientists agree that agree with climate change. And I said, Okay, that's good. That's good. I want to talk. Thio detent. I want to talk to the 10 scientists and I want to know what does this person know that the others are looking at? Is something being overlooked? Is it political? Is it something where it's being politicized? And and that, you know, the person I was talking to about this got pretty upset? And I'm like, Well, I compare toe dentistry? No. Four out of five dentists recommend Colgate. Yeah, well, why's that? Fifth dentist not recommended?

spk_0:   1:1:42
That's right.

spk_1:   1:1:43
What is that, Dennis? No. Or maybe they're just a quack. Who knows?

spk_0:   1:1:46
Yeah, exactly. People don't ask those questions. 04 That's pretty good for under five good odds. Yeah. Yeah, I should be fine. Maybe a little bit of critical thinking. And just to ask the right questions, I guess. But what I was trying to get at is even though you look at all the literature, you usually end up selecting what suits your your sought your your research. So you're screening and you're applying a bite. I said that level right during right at the research level. So when you're you've got that paper getting published, you get those results, and you're hoping that the person, you know, like has integrity, and I don't want to say that scientists don't have integrity, but I can't say that all of them do. You know, like we've seen the tobacco's industry, what was in the sixties or something

spk_1:   1:2:39
all the way up to the nineties.

spk_0:   1:2:40
That's true. So same. That's the excellent example of professional integrity having gone wrong. I guess that would be my opinion. But I can't I can't see for sure that all the scientists have not done a Thora research on the topics to make sure that everything's been looked at and that because maybe it's easy to want. You spend so many times so many years trying Thio working on your project, you get really attached to it on dhe, you gotta stay clear. At some point, you're going to get ideas about what you think is gonna happen off course, you're gonna make assumptions and start guessing what the hell come might be and that it's hard to not to stay unbiased at that point, too, because you might end up testing, changing how you're testing. But anyway, that's the scientific. That's where these scientists are trained, the way that they are red, like scientific rigor. They call it so that you can trick stay as unbiased this possible. But I don't think that's the case. 100% of time, it could be 90% of time. But you never. The thing is, you don't know where that 10% is when you're reading a paper

spk_1:   1:4:03
to bring it back to really wrong, you know, marketing, you know, you got to make your research palatable to the public. The public doesn't want to read about grafts. They want, they just want they want the soaked down details that are is going to be most applicable to them. They don't care about the you know what it was compared against they don't care about, you know, generally how was even measured. They just they care about the end result and in and presented to them in a way that so much spoon fed.

spk_0:   1:4:36
Yeah. I mean, the papers were written for other scientists so that they can move forward in their fields. Right. At that point, when you start involving the public, it's really just the public education's what up? When you're translating your very scientific paper topic into something people can understand a little bit easier.

spk_1:   1:4:59
So getting rid of the bigger words explain it to me. Explain to me like I'm five pretty much been a good, uh, podcast here, Ellie.

spk_0:   1:5:09
Thank you. Thinking

spk_1:   1:5:11
so before, Uh, before we conclude, Is there any social media stuff you want to throw it there for your business? Any instagram hashtags or anything like that? This your chance to plug your business,

spk_0:   1:5:24
right? Uh, I'm sorry. Too old for the hashtag thing. I don't understand.

spk_1:   1:5:30
Ever, ever tooled for Hashtags?

spk_0:   1:5:33
I don't I don't understand how it works, but I suppose it do. You have Ah, Facebook page for my foes. I feel for you, chicken. Oh, it will be. It's on Facebook. I'm working on a website for it. No. So Facebook. You're looking at led ground photography?

spk_1:   1:5:50
Well, it's been great having on the podcast. Elian six. Here. Well, how I will have you back on.

spk_0:   1:5:56
Okay. Sounds good.

spk_1:   1:5:57
Definitely. Will. Will solve all the ICO problems of the

spk_0:   1:6:00
world over. Sure, we'll talk. Tackle the carbon tax. Next

spk_1:   1:6:04
bullet's not. I hope you enjoy this episode. If you like to support this podcast, you can do so by following the podcast on social media sharing and talking about it on your own show. The links to the social media can be found in the description. Or you can enter coffee breath conversations on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. Thank you for listening. I hope to continue to deliver meaningful conversation.